I had this up before then removed it for fear of offending Calvinists because it has kind of a harsh tone.But since it is all true and from my heart and meant to make Calvinists think about what they believe I shall repost.
Couple QUICK questions:Why was God so appalled at people's wicked behavior like burning their children in fire to Molech if he decreed and desired it?Was he pretending to be disgusted about something he in fact decreed?Why if we were created in God's image would we be sickened to contemplate the things that the God of Calvinism "decreed for his fine pleasure" and then think God whose love and justice and mercy and goodness are FAR superior to ours as fallen humans wouldn't?Similar to the "trinity" and "hellfire" "proof texts" there are FAR SUPERIOR interpretations to calvinist "proof texts" that gel with God's love in a much more tenable,reasonable and defensible way.
Jeremiah 19:5:They have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind
1 John 4:8,16:God is love.
Contemplate what LOVE means,HONESTLY assessing it.That is his dominant quality.That is who HE IS.The God of Calvinism is like the original serpent who he condemns,causing everyone he chooses to be tortured in sadistic flames eternally for his pleasure,pure evil.It is hard enough explaining to non Christians why God PERMITS suffering..the God of Calvinism wouldn't exactly be easy to defend ,but,thankfully,He isn't the God of the bible.
If you're a Calvinist reading this,I hope you won't be quick to take offense but will be quick to read the bible in it's entirety and see what the scriptures speak loudly and clearly about from cover to cover.God has no part with evil.God is love.
God created everything PERFECT and then some of that creation REBELLED and BECAME evil without his assistance.Yes he allowed the downfall of man to occur because of the rebellion but he DID NOT decree the rebellion and he does not harbor the characteristics of Satan.He is NOT a sadistic evil deceiver and liar who said he was love but meant "I decree child rape".He warned Adam and Eve of the consequences of their idiotic decisions and they did NOT include him being the puppetmaster of every man who is evil and every man who is not.Just like Adam and Eve did,we have CHOICES ..Yes,God draws us.Yes,we can resist.Why?Because free will isn't a fantasy but a scriptural truth.And whoever says it isn't doesn't seem to understand that God is not partial just to be partial..He examines hearts and blesses those who draw close to him because they see him in the creation and understand his beauty and love.He wants those who want him and not those he has to make want him just because he can.That would be the equivalent of a man taking a woman hostage and forcing her to marry him just because he can..and then claiming that he is the epitome of love while also throwing whoever he he wants into an eternal fire for no reason but that it pleases him and somehow magnifies his holiness(even though this idea is NOT one in scripture)!.BUT he is love ..how ironic.
You can pretty much bet that if God wants us to be repulsed by the torture of people then he is repulsed by the torture of people and not pleased by torturing people infinitely AT ALL.Unless ,of course,our heartstrings are superior to God's.It's also a safe bet to assume that if God doesn't want us to be partial but to care lovingly for the most downtrodden that HE is NOT partial either and would never decree an orphan to an infinity in a literal lake of fire just because he can.Absurd.Yes,God's ways are higher than our ways.But,that does not mean sadism trumps love and mercy.And that the love and mercy we feel for fellow human beings without partiality is something too precious for God because supposedly wrath and sadistic decrees overtake those beautiful qualities he has and no mercy is up his sleeve in the flames of hell!The consistent testimony of scripture from beginning to end is that God is IMPARTIAL and LOVE,that his justice is temperd with mercy.Christ suffered an agonizing death ..God was merciful and let him die and not continue to be tortured.That's what will happen to us(agony that leads to death) if we have to pay for our own sins..that's right..our OWN sins..sins that God did NOT decree.God detests the evil and wickedness in the world which would logically lead any sincere heart to the conclusion that he did not DECREE IT.Now we are witnessing what happens when the world rebels against God and we needed to see this so we would know.So we would understand that he is the ONLY one who can bring peace and lead us in the way that is good and fruitful and blessed.If we did not see this now we wouldn't know and that is one reason he permits the suffering temporarily..he is not the Satanic one causing the sin but the loving one allowing it so we would know the hell it brings and could repent of it and live in a new world where it will exist no more where all things will be "made new" and there will be no more evil period,certainly not the flames of a fairy tale hell!
In Ezekial he is instructed to put a mark on the foreheads of those sighing and groaning over all the DETESTABLE things being done.Those with the mark would be saved because they weren't enjoying those detestable things but instead were disturbed by them.Now if God favors those who hate the detestable things would it REALLY make sense to think he himself decreed them and is in the same boat with the ones who took pleasure in them?I really cannot think of anything more despicable or heinous than hellfire.I sigh and groan over it.What about you?And don't even think about comin back at me with annihilation and how it will be detestable too.There is NO comparison.One is necessary and just and the punishment made clear for the wicked from Genesis on when God told Adam he would return to dust...the other is infinite sadism from a God people say is love..Hello atheist..meet the orthodox Christian God.Don't question anything,just embrace the tradition regardless of how illogical or asinine.Regardless of other interpretive possibilities that may be superior.Regardless of clear scriptural truths like God being impartial,merciful and loving and the wicked having to PERISH.In actuality,God is extremely partial,sadistic and unmerciful and tradition trumps logic and fact.Right?No balance with the Calvinist God.No impartiality.Quite frankly,no love.Yet,scripture says he IS love and he isn't partial.That is how I know right off the bat that Calvinism is false.Manmade.Just like love is God's dominant quality,it is also a grand theme in the bible which is absolutely in irrefutable opposition to Calvinism's whole mind and heartset.
God HATES wickedness and evil therefore he did not DECREE it.Common sense.If he has foreknowledge of something how would this be proof that he CAUSED it.Allowing and then being disgusted by it (soon to intervene) is a trillion miles away from decreeing it,taking pleasure in it and then extending his wrath into all eternity against poor people who were chosen by him for flames so that a sadistically "righteous" "new creation" could see how mean and big God can be even though he is supposed to epitomize love.
God's scales of justice are for the wicked to perish and "eye for an eye".The hellfire doctrine isn't an "eye" for anything!And it CERTAINLY isn't logical and there is NO excuse for taking a symbolic book like revelation and interpreting NON symbolic texts about the wicked perishing in light of the symbolic ones instead of the other way around.
May God's love and mercy and impartiality abound in your heart.You were created in his image with the capacity to be reasonable and to question what you're taught from men.Don't cease ever questioning what you're taught from men.Don't let your heart be hardened to the feeling that a God who is the one of Calvinism and Orthodox Christianity with the whole "hellfire thing" and "partial thing" is reasonably NOT LOVE.Then you may find the true One from scripture who is and embrace worshipping him in truth.
Contemplate(seriously) the life of Christ..did he seem like a man who would go around tapping heads that he desired to torment eternally and letting the heads untapped survive the wrath and live in "peace" while enjoying the cacophany of screams of the less fortunate (or maybe they don't even have to hear them..that would be better..but still unbearably HORRENDOUS for ANYONE righteous just knowing this was goin on)?Did he seem like a man who would look at two children and decide to torture one and save the other just because he's powerful?Did he seem like a man who scouted "vessels" for wrath even though he healed ALL the sick and embraced all who came to him?Was he love or was he partial and angry at those who he decreed to be his vessels of wrath just because he takes pleasure in seeing people suffer because it magnifies his "holiness"?The Calvinist Jesus is not the bible's Jesus.This should be pretty clear.And as a Calvinist,did you become one AFTER hearing intricate arguments and justifications from men OR did you get the impression from scripture itself that God's love is trumped by power trips?The wisdom of men like James White is foolishness to God. A well constructed ridiculously sharp argument can make ANYTHING sound plausible..but is that what God wants us to do?Ignore the simplicity of texts and take a few that SEEM to support something and make sure we make the entire bible fit it by twisting texts everywhere even though we should see if these texts CLEARLY in the minority can't conform to the entire bible.And they can.There are reasonable and superior interpretations available for Calvinist's delight if only they'll partake.
To reiiterate and to be realistic.God is impartial..God is love.Even when his severe wrath needs to be satisfied and his holiness magnified..the worst that happened was agony then death.And only against those willful unrepentant sinners that had the CHOICE to sin or not..he wasn't pulling their strings to make 'em.And if he was,he never told us this.
I'm just putting one part of this series here about Romans chapter 9(James White's lifeblood)but I urge you to watch all (I think 6) parts.These are some superior interpretations to the traditional Calvinist ones that are IN LINE with the TOTALITY of scripture which is that God is love.In Calvinism,God does despicable things that are not in harmony with the personality the bible provides for Him.As for this guy's beliefs,I'm sure I would disagree with him on MANY,but not on his thoughts about calvinism. Search:Romans 9: Predestination or Free Will? on youtube for the rest of this series.Enjoy!I need to rewatch it myself!
Honestly.I didn't even know how strongly I felt about Calvinism till I wrote this.If this defense against it seems harsh..that would be because there is no reason for me not to scream from the rooftop that God is love.. hell is a lie.. and God is not a tyrant.I am a Christian BECAUSE God is love.BECAUSE he is impartial.AND because He gave us free will,allowing us to choose him or not.We are free creatures.I appreciate that!THANK YOU GOD.
"I never know what I think about something until I read what I've written on it"~William Faulkner
Hey Kellie, good to see you posting again. I realize this is your blog, but I wanted to offer you a recommendation so that those who read your blog might be able to follow it a little better and not get lost in some of the details.
ReplyDeleteSometimes I like to take my longer posts and divide them up so that things are easier to digest. For instance, this recent post would be much easier to read in 3 or 4 parts.
Just a recommendation :-)
Hey Kellie,
ReplyDeleteI don't agree with what you say here but it is hard to not admire your passion for your view of God. I was wondering if you are familiar with the concept of "restraining Grace?"
That's Mike's roundabout way of saying "My eyes glazed over after a few paragraphs.I'm out of here before I finish"
ReplyDeleteBrian,why would an impartial loving awesome God restrain grace from someone who had no choice but to NOT be saved because that's the only chioice He's given him/her even though God sets OUR moral compass and even we would find such a notion appalling given NO ONE even asked to be born?!Absurd.Calvinism isn't even remotely reconcilable with LOVE or MERCY or IMPARTIALITY.Therefore Calvinism is EVIDENTLY FALSE.The large number of texts you have to twist to make them fit the way you've managed to twist the few in the OVERWHELMING minority should raise serious suspicion.
And THEN magnify all these manmade philosophies with a literal application of an eternal fire that scripture explicitly tells us means destruction and preaching that to the world?Taking the fire literally and the destruction as something other than what it actually says?Dangerous.
btw thanks guys for being polite despite our siginificant differences and my run on rants busting your faiths ;)
ReplyDeleteHey Katie,
ReplyDeleteI answered the main part of the question you asked on my blog. Take care
Hey Kellie, I stopped back to see if you responded to me and I reread you answer to my "restraining grace question." I got distracted by your answer the first time but the second time i noticed you said: "
ReplyDelete"Brian,why would an impartial loving awesome God restrain grace "
I can see by your answer to the question the answer is no, so the question I was going to ask based upon the idea would be fruitless so let me ask another.
Has God ever violated ones free will or are humans completely sovereign in their choices and actions?
I enjoyed reading your conversation with Mike, 21crosscheck21 and on this and his site. I fought ardently with myself for a long time before I abandoned my "dispensationalist / left behind" theology for reformed theology. Though I may disagree with your view, I like your passion!
ReplyDeleteThanks Mike!
ReplyDeleteYes,Brian,I think(and my opinion is certainly fallible) that Jah uses people sometimes according to what he essentially finds in their hearts.Yes,he can override someone's free will most especially if he wants to use someone for some particular exceptional purpose.But I certainly don't think he haphazardly does it or that he does it at all times!He's a wise God..For instance,He knew Paul's heart inside and out and understood that this man was special and could be used for a great purpose with his experience etc.
Either God is impartial or he isn't.Acc to scripture,he is.Acc to you he isn't.