I mistakenly said in this video that the caller wanted to know how Christ could be 100 percent man if he was also 100 percent God. But he was really inquiring how he could be 100 percent God if he was 100 percent man, essentially anyway. Sorry about that! Talk of a trinity always scrambles the brain.
This is a "Dear Christians against the Watchtower" special edition. When you hear the White clip (turn up your speakers!), you will think Jehovah's Witness elders are pussycats. No doubt many trinitarians will think and say White gave a good defense of his faith. But if they heard this same kind of intellectual intimidation, judgment, and condescension from Jehovah's Witness elders toward conscientious objectors, they would use it for proof that the Watchtower is evil. Hypocrisy.
Showing posts with label 1914. Show all posts
Showing posts with label 1914. Show all posts
Monday, October 22, 2012
Monday, May 30, 2011
Monday, June 14, 2010
7 ways Jehovah's Witnesses and Christians are alike
Please understand I am not judging JW's or orthodox Christians' eternal salvation!God is love, and one of the most important things in the world IS LOVE.Love even covers a multitude of sin,so I'll let GOD,the great reader of hearts,judge everyone through Christ.What I am doing is declaring the truth as I've found it & exposing error where I perceive it because I know how the truth sets us free and that's what Christ would have done..tell the truth and lay bear the error,bringing every thought into captivity to his.(the youtubes are below if you'd rather watch those than read all this.)
1st similarity:They will label you with horrible names like "heretic" and "apostate" if you don't fully accept their traditions of men no matter what you may show them in scripture that refutes their traditions.
One example for each group..If you show a trinitarian how Jesus confirmed the Shema as HIS statement of faith,as a truth that still stands,as one of the most important things a man can know,and if that trinitarian knows that the Jews of old who didn't have the "full revelation" of the trinity to whom this truth was first given knew that the father was that ONE YAHWEH,is anyone really to believe the truth has changed and that that ONE YAHWEH for the Jews is now three for the Christians?If you show a trinitarian Jesus said WE worship what WE know(John 4:22-24),including himself as a Jew who worshipped the God of the Shema,they will excuse that as a "nature speaking" though there was no such qualification from our Lord.Since Jesus had a God and still apparently does,(Ephesians 1:3)there's no reason whatsoever to believe that HIS God exists in the very same Lord Jesus himself was made.(Acts 2:36)If believing what Jesus said in John 17:3 makes me a heretic then I wear that title proudly.And if you tell Jehovah's Witness that there's no reason to label someone just because they left an organization but still happen to love and serve Yahweh,still happen to believe Jesus is the Christ,but knows now a corporation isn't a savior and men can be questioned,they of course will still call you apostate and think you're scum because you don't think God's channel is a billion dollar a year publishing entity who has false prophecied repeatedly,harboring bloodguilt, with no seeming remorse.So,again,these two groups will name call and sometimes shun for unbiblical reasons though they both claim that God is our judge.
2nd similarity:They have listened to mere men's exegesis of the Lord's words instead of simply believing the Lord's words.They have let men color or erase altogether the Lord's words of truth.They have let men tell them "what Jesus meant" instead of simply listening to what Jesus actually said when there is good reason to just let Jesus speak without any imposition of theories about what he "meant."For example..I'll once again give just one example a piece for each group:
At
John 3:3: Jesus said to him(Nicodemus): “Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
There's no qualification here,Jehovah's Witnesses.Listen to Jesus!
and for Christians:Jesus said at:
John 17:3:This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.
There's no qualification here Christians!In other words,no evidence all of Christ wasn't present in his words ,including those of his declarations in other texts of inferiority and of not knowing everything,as opposed to just 100 of his "200 percent" being present in much of what he declared.Someone who doesn't know everything who calls his father the only one truly God,distinguishing himself from that One as being the one that One "sent forth" is clearly neither omniscient nor the True God.Do you REALLY think those listening thought that Jesus had just there declared that he was the second of three persons who individually is "True God" yet also 1/3 of the entirety of the same True God he said his father was the only one of?If you think so,I would say that's one of the most far fetched and ridiculous notions I have simply ever heard.
3rd similarity:They believe certain far fetched theological theories and base entire doctrines upon those simply because they have misused a literal few texts and then proceeded to let their misuse of those few texts color their interpretation of every thing else they see in scripture.Instead of letting everything else they see in scripture simply mean what it says without any imposition of preconceived theological biases changing the meaning of those scriptures to make them fit that far fetched theological theory,sometimes called a "mystery,"(which reminds me of Babylon the Great) and sometimes called "new light" even though Christ the true light never changes HIS truth.
For example:The JW's believe there are two groups who will be separated eternally ,one on earth and the other in heaven lording it over those on earth.This is mainly because of a misuse of the texts about "little flock"(Luke 12:32) and "other sheep."(John 10:16) who they think are the heavenly and the earthly class,but they're REALLY the Jews and the Gentiles.Also based on a misuse of Revelation ch 7 where they say the 144,000 has to be literal,with no good basis in a symbolic book,failing to understand that the great crowd may very well be the 144,000 because "spiritual Israel,"who the tribes may symbolize, is composed of every tribe,tongue,people and nation,yes,the great crowd.Why not consider the possibility that perhaps this symbolic number has what it represents explained right afterward,as if oft the case with symbols in revelation!Keep in mind,JW's,that the heavenly kingdom can simply be the "new earth" because Heaven will descend TO it and it will belong to God in heaven,a heavenly kingdom,a "new earth."I could go on and on, but I will instead refer you to my 3 part series "Are there 2 separate hopes for Christians?"Check them out if you can.There are a few possible interpretations of Revelation ch 7 but suffice it to say the WT one is an IMPOSSIBLE one.Don't believe me?Read Ephesians 2:14-17 and tell me what you think about what is said of the two groups(the little flock and other sheep,aka the Jews and Gentiles) in those.
Now for the Christians..they base their Godman theory on what they call the "hypostatic union" which they claim is expressed in a literal few texts like Colossians 2:9 where it says Christ had God's fullness and hence they say he was "fully God" which somehow inexplicably leads to "the second person of a triune substance."This argument is weak given that Christians may be "filled up to all the fullness of God."(Ephesians 3:19)Christ has the fullness because God was in him reconciling the world unto him self (2 Corinthians 5:19),by means of His spirit,(John 3:34)working fully through him!(Acts 2:22)Another one of the few they use to support this "hypostatic union" is Philippians 2:6 and 7 where Christ ,although he existed in God's form emptied himself and took the form of a slave.First of all,"form" is synonymous with "image" and can't prove anything but that Jesus ISN'T the same God his father is because he was rather that one's image and "form."Have YOU ever heard of someone in another's image who also partakes of the "substance" of the one they're the image OF?
Zeisler noted in "Pauline Christianity":Christ,like Adam,was the image of God,but unlike Adam did not regard equality with God a matter of grabbing(a prize to be snatched).Unlike Adam,he voluntarily accepted servanthood and mortality.
Yes,Philippians is distingushing the Last Adam from the first Adam(who was also made in God's image) in that Christ obeyed and humbled himself under God unlike the first who rebelled and thought he might become "like God."Clearly,God sent his son, and that is the one who humbled himself unto death,a FULLY FLESH man,able to be tempted and able to die.True God is NOT the Last Adam.The one True God made Lord(Acts 2:36) and firstborn(Psalm 89:27) is the Last Adam.One of 2 "natures" of God's Son is not the Last Adam.The ENTIRETY of God's beloved Son was the Last Adam.That firstborn beloved Son of God did not harbor another nature on top of his flesh one,though he did have God's spirit fully working through him without measure so that he could reveal God's personality and will to us fully.The bible says those who don't confess Christ came in the flesh(it doesn't say in the flesh and also another nature on top of it!) are antichrists.So to confess Christ came in the flesh with no further natures added to that would be the appropriate confession.Any other confession is to be condemned.(as inference,manmade)
4th similarity:Often enough,they both think THEIR version of the "good news" excludes any other possibility of what the "good news" might also encompass.Either that or they think THEIR "good news" is somehow superior to others'.
For example,Christians sometimes think the good news is the death and resurrection of the Christ and seem to get all defensive when JW's say that the good news is the kingdom of God and the restoration of the earth to Paradisaic conditions.JW's seem to get defensive when Christians say the good news is the death and resurrection of Christ and the freedom we can find in him.BOTH are correct..so why not just admit that proclaiming the kingdom of God and Christ's resurrection and freedom BOTH are wonderful Christian things to declare!Don't get me wrong.I am not advocating JW's advancement of 1914 and an eternal separation of Christians OR the Christian advancement that Jesus was alive while he was supposed to be dead and the resurrection of nothing but a "body" devoid of Christ as "good news."(see my video "Did Jesus really die for trinitarians for more information.)I'm simply saying that the genuine death and resurrection of our Lord and the restoration of the earth with a rule from the heavens over it are all "good news!"These should be proclaimed by all who call themselves Christian because they are all called good news in the bible!All through his ministry Jesus preached the kingdom,which didn't transfer from the earthly hope the OT Jews were promised to a flying away to heaven for Christians.It was the SAME Kingdom promised the Jews that the Christians will also see.(Acts 1:6)All through the book of Acts the disciples preached the death and resurrection as good news.Embrace it all.
5th similarity:They both seem to oft times think that IF in their religious institution or organization or tradition there is some sound truth that that somehow means men who taught them these truths must have everything right.All or nothing.
When I was a Jehovah's Witness,I thought since they knew basic fundamental truths about the soul's ability to die,the wicked actually perishing as opposed to be preserved alive in flames for all of eternity,Jesus's father being the only true God ..etc..and that since they seemed to basically be some of the only ones who actually knew this,that these men must have special knowledge I should embrace.That's where deception kicked in and I started believing what they said about OTHER things that WEREN'T true because they knew so many basic truths that the world seemed to not understand.I get the feeling that orthodox Christians,when they listen to compelling sermons from people like Paul Washer and the like,in which there is MUCH truth,that they are compelled emotionally and even intellectually to believe everything people like Paul Washer say.Because Paul Washer preaches a lot of truth.Unfortunately,a little leaven can ferment the whole lump.And there is leaven in both the WT organization and in orthodox Christianity that remains unrecognized by those who profess to be of these faiths because listening to sometimes charismatic or even humble,meek teachers and preachers can be a deceiving,even if only partially deceiving,business.The whole world is lying in Satan's power and is under his deception..not just the WT society.Examine all things.
6th similarity:They have both let men who have gathered together in Ecumenical councils or in closed secretive quarters in a publishing building in NYC determine their statements of faith instead of,again,listening to what the Lord and his God who made that one our Lord(Acts 2:36)actually say in succint and irrefutable BIBLICAL statements that SHOULD be our faith statements.
For example,a JW should be able to say and believe what Jesus taught in his unqualified declarations like those found in :
John 6:53 Accordingly Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day;(Jesus gave no hint that he was only talking a few privileged ones in the WT society as opposed to every Christian who would read his powerful words)
1 Timothy 2:5: For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus,(no reason men should be able to qualify and nullify this for JW's..ALSO no reason trinitarians should believe the mediator existed in the same "being" as the ONE GOD(Deut 6:4) who he is distinguished from in this text,again)
Now the Nicene Creed confesses that Christ is "True God from True God" in direct and alarming violation of John 17:3 where Jesus says his father is the only True God.I will oft hear certain trinitarians use Early Church fathers' writings as evidence for what is true even though the ones they cite in general were philosophically and Platonically schooled and certainly didn't believe exactly the same as modern day trinitarians.Even the Nicene Creed is ambiguous in its declaration of what the holy spirit might be!God warned us of men's traditions and philosophies.Apostasy was ALREADY present in the first century.Would it be far fetched to say those from a Greek culture might naturally impose their Hellenistic thought onto the Hebrew texts with time?Tradition is powerful.Tradition can blind.It doesn't always cater to the facts.
What I would recommend would be to take succint explicit texts that tell us who God and Christ are like John 17:3,1 Corinthians 8:5,6,1 Timothy 2:5,John 20:17,Ephesians 1:3(etc.!)..instead of building an elaborate system of inference to proclaim something that is never explicitly declared anywhere in all of scripture.I would also recommend not using terminology like "substance" and "triune" to define God when scripture doesn't if you're "sola scriptura." Again,cite the texts that explain who God and Christ are as your creed.Why aren't they good enough?I saw one video on youtube called "The Jesus creed" where many texts were given that were about Jesus,with positively NONE defining a triune God.Because there aren't any.
Going into this thought a little more...the
7th similarity is that they both have doctrines based upon elaborate theological systems of interpretation and INFERENCE that cannot be gathered from any explicit statement in scripture but rather only from preconceived impositions upon many texts they use together to invent a concept they think is sound in spite of it not being succintly taught or defined in scripture,oft times using unbiblical language to define their doctrines that are foreign to scripture,except through this system of severe and unwarranted, sometimes even blatantly philosophical, imposed terminology & bold inference.
To better articulate what I'm talking about here,listen to Patrick Navas,author of "Divine truth or human tradition:A Reconsideration of the Roman Catholic-Protestant Doctrine of the Trinity in Light of the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures" on a radio debate Six screens of the Watchtower set up between him and Brian Garcia,aka "newagegamer" on youtube.(link below for debate)
http://www.sixscreensofthewatchtower.com/isot-call-6-20-09.html
To quote him:
"I did associate with the Witnesses to some extent but never joined the organization.One of the major reasons that prevented me from committing myself to that community even though I felt there was a lot of good there..I never became persuaded that what they teach about the doctrine of 1914,which is a very complicated interpretational formula that's arrived at in a very similar way that trinitarians basically approach the subject of the trinity.The point that I'm making is that in a similar sense what the witnesses are basically saying is you have to believe that Jesus has been invisibly present since the year 1914 which they arrive at through this extremely complicated interpretive formula,and they connect a wide variety of verses and statements interpreted in a certain way that all gives in their minds credence to this belief..and it's something that they consider essential and that in fact you can believe all the things that the bible says but if you don't agree with them on this particular formula relating to chronology in their minds you can't really be accepted as a true Christian.You're disqualified from true Christian status in their thinking.In a very similar way,the trinitarians are basically saying "look you cannnot be accepted as a true Christian"..you're disqualified for not accepting something that ISN'T EVER discussed or even mentioned in the scripture but is a "doctrinal formula" that is basically something that is arrived at through a very complex process of inference and interpretation.It's not something that's straightforward in the scriptures.If it was,then people who believed the scriptures would never..there'd be no reason to question it.And that's why I don't question doctrines like Jesus is the Messiah or that God raised him from the dead or that God is love..simply because those teachings are directly and clearly articulated whereas the doctrine of the trinity is just simply not in that category of things that the scripture deliberately presents to us.In a similar way,I don't accept the trinitarian conclusion.Neither do I accept the 1914 doctrine of the Witnesses.What I've seen in my studies..the practice of basically saying you must accept a doctrinal formula in order to be saved is just a difficult & in my opinion IMMODEST thing to do when the scripture already tells us explicitly what we have to believe to come to a true,a good relationship with God."
Amen Patrick.Well said.
1st similarity:They will label you with horrible names like "heretic" and "apostate" if you don't fully accept their traditions of men no matter what you may show them in scripture that refutes their traditions.
One example for each group..If you show a trinitarian how Jesus confirmed the Shema as HIS statement of faith,as a truth that still stands,as one of the most important things a man can know,and if that trinitarian knows that the Jews of old who didn't have the "full revelation" of the trinity to whom this truth was first given knew that the father was that ONE YAHWEH,is anyone really to believe the truth has changed and that that ONE YAHWEH for the Jews is now three for the Christians?If you show a trinitarian Jesus said WE worship what WE know(John 4:22-24),including himself as a Jew who worshipped the God of the Shema,they will excuse that as a "nature speaking" though there was no such qualification from our Lord.Since Jesus had a God and still apparently does,(Ephesians 1:3)there's no reason whatsoever to believe that HIS God exists in the very same Lord Jesus himself was made.(Acts 2:36)If believing what Jesus said in John 17:3 makes me a heretic then I wear that title proudly.And if you tell Jehovah's Witness that there's no reason to label someone just because they left an organization but still happen to love and serve Yahweh,still happen to believe Jesus is the Christ,but knows now a corporation isn't a savior and men can be questioned,they of course will still call you apostate and think you're scum because you don't think God's channel is a billion dollar a year publishing entity who has false prophecied repeatedly,harboring bloodguilt, with no seeming remorse.So,again,these two groups will name call and sometimes shun for unbiblical reasons though they both claim that God is our judge.
2nd similarity:They have listened to mere men's exegesis of the Lord's words instead of simply believing the Lord's words.They have let men color or erase altogether the Lord's words of truth.They have let men tell them "what Jesus meant" instead of simply listening to what Jesus actually said when there is good reason to just let Jesus speak without any imposition of theories about what he "meant."For example..I'll once again give just one example a piece for each group:
At
John 3:3: Jesus said to him(Nicodemus): “Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
There's no qualification here,Jehovah's Witnesses.Listen to Jesus!
and for Christians:Jesus said at:
John 17:3:This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.
There's no qualification here Christians!In other words,no evidence all of Christ wasn't present in his words ,including those of his declarations in other texts of inferiority and of not knowing everything,as opposed to just 100 of his "200 percent" being present in much of what he declared.Someone who doesn't know everything who calls his father the only one truly God,distinguishing himself from that One as being the one that One "sent forth" is clearly neither omniscient nor the True God.Do you REALLY think those listening thought that Jesus had just there declared that he was the second of three persons who individually is "True God" yet also 1/3 of the entirety of the same True God he said his father was the only one of?If you think so,I would say that's one of the most far fetched and ridiculous notions I have simply ever heard.
3rd similarity:They believe certain far fetched theological theories and base entire doctrines upon those simply because they have misused a literal few texts and then proceeded to let their misuse of those few texts color their interpretation of every thing else they see in scripture.Instead of letting everything else they see in scripture simply mean what it says without any imposition of preconceived theological biases changing the meaning of those scriptures to make them fit that far fetched theological theory,sometimes called a "mystery,"(which reminds me of Babylon the Great) and sometimes called "new light" even though Christ the true light never changes HIS truth.
For example:The JW's believe there are two groups who will be separated eternally ,one on earth and the other in heaven lording it over those on earth.This is mainly because of a misuse of the texts about "little flock"(Luke 12:32) and "other sheep."(John 10:16) who they think are the heavenly and the earthly class,but they're REALLY the Jews and the Gentiles.Also based on a misuse of Revelation ch 7 where they say the 144,000 has to be literal,with no good basis in a symbolic book,failing to understand that the great crowd may very well be the 144,000 because "spiritual Israel,"who the tribes may symbolize, is composed of every tribe,tongue,people and nation,yes,the great crowd.Why not consider the possibility that perhaps this symbolic number has what it represents explained right afterward,as if oft the case with symbols in revelation!Keep in mind,JW's,that the heavenly kingdom can simply be the "new earth" because Heaven will descend TO it and it will belong to God in heaven,a heavenly kingdom,a "new earth."I could go on and on, but I will instead refer you to my 3 part series "Are there 2 separate hopes for Christians?"Check them out if you can.There are a few possible interpretations of Revelation ch 7 but suffice it to say the WT one is an IMPOSSIBLE one.Don't believe me?Read Ephesians 2:14-17 and tell me what you think about what is said of the two groups(the little flock and other sheep,aka the Jews and Gentiles) in those.
Now for the Christians..they base their Godman theory on what they call the "hypostatic union" which they claim is expressed in a literal few texts like Colossians 2:9 where it says Christ had God's fullness and hence they say he was "fully God" which somehow inexplicably leads to "the second person of a triune substance."This argument is weak given that Christians may be "filled up to all the fullness of God."(Ephesians 3:19)Christ has the fullness because God was in him reconciling the world unto him self (2 Corinthians 5:19),by means of His spirit,(John 3:34)working fully through him!(Acts 2:22)Another one of the few they use to support this "hypostatic union" is Philippians 2:6 and 7 where Christ ,although he existed in God's form emptied himself and took the form of a slave.First of all,"form" is synonymous with "image" and can't prove anything but that Jesus ISN'T the same God his father is because he was rather that one's image and "form."Have YOU ever heard of someone in another's image who also partakes of the "substance" of the one they're the image OF?
Zeisler noted in "Pauline Christianity":Christ,like Adam,was the image of God,but unlike Adam did not regard equality with God a matter of grabbing(a prize to be snatched).Unlike Adam,he voluntarily accepted servanthood and mortality.
Yes,Philippians is distingushing the Last Adam from the first Adam(who was also made in God's image) in that Christ obeyed and humbled himself under God unlike the first who rebelled and thought he might become "like God."Clearly,God sent his son, and that is the one who humbled himself unto death,a FULLY FLESH man,able to be tempted and able to die.True God is NOT the Last Adam.The one True God made Lord(Acts 2:36) and firstborn(Psalm 89:27) is the Last Adam.One of 2 "natures" of God's Son is not the Last Adam.The ENTIRETY of God's beloved Son was the Last Adam.That firstborn beloved Son of God did not harbor another nature on top of his flesh one,though he did have God's spirit fully working through him without measure so that he could reveal God's personality and will to us fully.The bible says those who don't confess Christ came in the flesh(it doesn't say in the flesh and also another nature on top of it!) are antichrists.So to confess Christ came in the flesh with no further natures added to that would be the appropriate confession.Any other confession is to be condemned.(as inference,manmade)
4th similarity:Often enough,they both think THEIR version of the "good news" excludes any other possibility of what the "good news" might also encompass.Either that or they think THEIR "good news" is somehow superior to others'.
For example,Christians sometimes think the good news is the death and resurrection of the Christ and seem to get all defensive when JW's say that the good news is the kingdom of God and the restoration of the earth to Paradisaic conditions.JW's seem to get defensive when Christians say the good news is the death and resurrection of Christ and the freedom we can find in him.BOTH are correct..so why not just admit that proclaiming the kingdom of God and Christ's resurrection and freedom BOTH are wonderful Christian things to declare!Don't get me wrong.I am not advocating JW's advancement of 1914 and an eternal separation of Christians OR the Christian advancement that Jesus was alive while he was supposed to be dead and the resurrection of nothing but a "body" devoid of Christ as "good news."(see my video "Did Jesus really die for trinitarians for more information.)I'm simply saying that the genuine death and resurrection of our Lord and the restoration of the earth with a rule from the heavens over it are all "good news!"These should be proclaimed by all who call themselves Christian because they are all called good news in the bible!All through his ministry Jesus preached the kingdom,which didn't transfer from the earthly hope the OT Jews were promised to a flying away to heaven for Christians.It was the SAME Kingdom promised the Jews that the Christians will also see.(Acts 1:6)All through the book of Acts the disciples preached the death and resurrection as good news.Embrace it all.
5th similarity:They both seem to oft times think that IF in their religious institution or organization or tradition there is some sound truth that that somehow means men who taught them these truths must have everything right.All or nothing.
When I was a Jehovah's Witness,I thought since they knew basic fundamental truths about the soul's ability to die,the wicked actually perishing as opposed to be preserved alive in flames for all of eternity,Jesus's father being the only true God ..etc..and that since they seemed to basically be some of the only ones who actually knew this,that these men must have special knowledge I should embrace.That's where deception kicked in and I started believing what they said about OTHER things that WEREN'T true because they knew so many basic truths that the world seemed to not understand.I get the feeling that orthodox Christians,when they listen to compelling sermons from people like Paul Washer and the like,in which there is MUCH truth,that they are compelled emotionally and even intellectually to believe everything people like Paul Washer say.Because Paul Washer preaches a lot of truth.Unfortunately,a little leaven can ferment the whole lump.And there is leaven in both the WT organization and in orthodox Christianity that remains unrecognized by those who profess to be of these faiths because listening to sometimes charismatic or even humble,meek teachers and preachers can be a deceiving,even if only partially deceiving,business.The whole world is lying in Satan's power and is under his deception..not just the WT society.Examine all things.
6th similarity:They have both let men who have gathered together in Ecumenical councils or in closed secretive quarters in a publishing building in NYC determine their statements of faith instead of,again,listening to what the Lord and his God who made that one our Lord(Acts 2:36)actually say in succint and irrefutable BIBLICAL statements that SHOULD be our faith statements.
For example,a JW should be able to say and believe what Jesus taught in his unqualified declarations like those found in :
John 6:53 Accordingly Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day;(Jesus gave no hint that he was only talking a few privileged ones in the WT society as opposed to every Christian who would read his powerful words)
1 Timothy 2:5: For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus,(no reason men should be able to qualify and nullify this for JW's..ALSO no reason trinitarians should believe the mediator existed in the same "being" as the ONE GOD(Deut 6:4) who he is distinguished from in this text,again)
Now the Nicene Creed confesses that Christ is "True God from True God" in direct and alarming violation of John 17:3 where Jesus says his father is the only True God.I will oft hear certain trinitarians use Early Church fathers' writings as evidence for what is true even though the ones they cite in general were philosophically and Platonically schooled and certainly didn't believe exactly the same as modern day trinitarians.Even the Nicene Creed is ambiguous in its declaration of what the holy spirit might be!God warned us of men's traditions and philosophies.Apostasy was ALREADY present in the first century.Would it be far fetched to say those from a Greek culture might naturally impose their Hellenistic thought onto the Hebrew texts with time?Tradition is powerful.Tradition can blind.It doesn't always cater to the facts.
What I would recommend would be to take succint explicit texts that tell us who God and Christ are like John 17:3,1 Corinthians 8:5,6,1 Timothy 2:5,John 20:17,Ephesians 1:3(etc.!)..instead of building an elaborate system of inference to proclaim something that is never explicitly declared anywhere in all of scripture.I would also recommend not using terminology like "substance" and "triune" to define God when scripture doesn't if you're "sola scriptura." Again,cite the texts that explain who God and Christ are as your creed.Why aren't they good enough?I saw one video on youtube called "The Jesus creed" where many texts were given that were about Jesus,with positively NONE defining a triune God.Because there aren't any.
Going into this thought a little more...the
7th similarity is that they both have doctrines based upon elaborate theological systems of interpretation and INFERENCE that cannot be gathered from any explicit statement in scripture but rather only from preconceived impositions upon many texts they use together to invent a concept they think is sound in spite of it not being succintly taught or defined in scripture,oft times using unbiblical language to define their doctrines that are foreign to scripture,except through this system of severe and unwarranted, sometimes even blatantly philosophical, imposed terminology & bold inference.
To better articulate what I'm talking about here,listen to Patrick Navas,author of "Divine truth or human tradition:A Reconsideration of the Roman Catholic-Protestant Doctrine of the Trinity in Light of the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures" on a radio debate Six screens of the Watchtower set up between him and Brian Garcia,aka "newagegamer" on youtube.(link below for debate)
http://www.sixscreensofthewatchtower.com/isot-call-6-20-09.html
To quote him:
"I did associate with the Witnesses to some extent but never joined the organization.One of the major reasons that prevented me from committing myself to that community even though I felt there was a lot of good there..I never became persuaded that what they teach about the doctrine of 1914,which is a very complicated interpretational formula that's arrived at in a very similar way that trinitarians basically approach the subject of the trinity.The point that I'm making is that in a similar sense what the witnesses are basically saying is you have to believe that Jesus has been invisibly present since the year 1914 which they arrive at through this extremely complicated interpretive formula,and they connect a wide variety of verses and statements interpreted in a certain way that all gives in their minds credence to this belief..and it's something that they consider essential and that in fact you can believe all the things that the bible says but if you don't agree with them on this particular formula relating to chronology in their minds you can't really be accepted as a true Christian.You're disqualified from true Christian status in their thinking.In a very similar way,the trinitarians are basically saying "look you cannnot be accepted as a true Christian"..you're disqualified for not accepting something that ISN'T EVER discussed or even mentioned in the scripture but is a "doctrinal formula" that is basically something that is arrived at through a very complex process of inference and interpretation.It's not something that's straightforward in the scriptures.If it was,then people who believed the scriptures would never..there'd be no reason to question it.And that's why I don't question doctrines like Jesus is the Messiah or that God raised him from the dead or that God is love..simply because those teachings are directly and clearly articulated whereas the doctrine of the trinity is just simply not in that category of things that the scripture deliberately presents to us.In a similar way,I don't accept the trinitarian conclusion.Neither do I accept the 1914 doctrine of the Witnesses.What I've seen in my studies..the practice of basically saying you must accept a doctrinal formula in order to be saved is just a difficult & in my opinion IMMODEST thing to do when the scripture already tells us explicitly what we have to believe to come to a true,a good relationship with God."
Amen Patrick.Well said.
Monday, January 4, 2010
Watchtower false dates and "Crisis of Conscience"
This blog is inspired by the MUST READ book "Crisis of Conscience" by former governing body member Raymond Franz,who is nothing but kind and respectful and matter of fact in this gem of a book.
"Today several millions of Jehovah's Witnesses believe and teach that Christ's invisible presence began in 1914.Very few realize that for nearly 50 years the WT society announced and heralded,in their role as prophet,that such invisible presence began in 1874.As late as 1929,15 yrs. AFTER 1914,they were still teaching this." p.183-184,"Crisis of Conscience"
1.the WT taught for DECADES that Christ began his kingdom rule in 1878.
2.The WT taught for HALF A CENTURY that the "last days" began in 1799
3.For more than 40 yrs. the WT taught that the resurrection of anointed Christians began in 1878.
4.From its beginning,the WT taught that the "harvest" would run from 1874 to 1914 and that by 1914 the destruction of all human institutions of this world would take place.
5.They say now that Babylon the Great fell in 1919.For FOUR DECADES they said 1878,with its COMPLETE destruction culminating in 1914 or 1918.
6.This list could go ON and ON.
The cause for the change?To quote Franz "the failure of their published expectations to be realized."
And those who didn't believe them were not only stumbled,but labelled and shunned.After all,how could they remain a JW unhypocritically if they didn't believe every ounce of information out of the mouths of the governing body since that is the society's dogmatic unjustified standards?To wholeheartedly,and without question,believe everything they say,no matter what ,to remain "acceptable".Otherwise,you would be a risk to the unity of the organization's followers,right?Well,the solution is to STOP BEING DOGMATIC about issues that have nothing to do with anyone's salvation,that Christ and the apostles did not teach as THEIR good news.And to actually read the bible and BELIEVE what it says about nonessential teachings and legalistic standards not being necessary for salvation,like the Pharisees believed they were.And to also believe Jesus when he said it wasn't up to us to know the dates or seasons.Keep on the watch by all means.But stop speculating specific dates that the bible says belongs ONLY to the father to discern.Jehovah's Witnesses often compare their false predictions to the apostles premature expectations as told at Acts 1:6 yet completely ignore what Jesus said rebuking them in the very next verse.There are no more excuses.
Acts 1:7:He (Jesus) said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.(NIV)
These false predictions weren't just passingly proclaimed as possibilities..they were emphatically & confidently declared for decades.Now THIS is part of the record you must consider,as the WT organization says you should,to determine whether they are a "modern-day prophet".And if they are,what kind of prophet are they if their predictions all failed?
The society has said that it is fallible and not dogmatic yet they dogmatically enforce their inferences as if they are infallible and people who don't adhere are not approved JW association.There is a discrepancy here that is inexplicable and again,dictates behavior on the part of supposed "good JW's" and the society itself that is the OPPOSITE of just.
Again,I am going to have to point out that if you had questioned these men in their error you would have been deemed all kinds of blasphemous names and titles,even though these dates were as false as the sun is bright..And this isn't nitpicking history.This is still going on.If a doctrine has the potential to become "new light" tomorrow that means:
1.It may have never been true to begin with.
2.It isn't stable to begin with nor should it be a dogmatism and enforced belief because of it's instability.
3.It is absolutely ridiculous to shun and label fellow Christians for questioning these speculations that are based on unstable biblical interpretations by men that don't even agree with one another to begin with unanimously,yet expect you to adhere to their faulty interpretations wholeheartedly in order to remain a "true Christian" and "acceptable".
The Society's recent publications infer that the serious expectations and dogmatic assertions in regards to all these dates and their fulfillments were the responsibility of the readers and the readers' inferrences from reading the literature!
From Jehovah's Witnesses and the Divine Purpose page 52:
"There is no doubt that many throughout this period were overzealous in their statements as to what could be expected.Some read into the WT statements that were never intended."
As genuine as this might SOUND,a true examination of the evidence reveals their glossing over the facts,their hypocrisy,and their shameless aversion of attention from themselves as the blame for their lies to OTHERS,like the JW's who trust them and even God himself.
"If any expressed doubts about the Society's chronology,the very quality of their relationship with God was subtly placed in question--along with their faith and wisdom.This is a form of intellectual intimidation,a practice that increased manyfold once 1914 had passed by,failing to fulfill the expectations published worldwide." p.198 "Crisis of Conscience"
As Franz points out,there was intense importance and constant emphasis placed on these false dates,in many cases for more than 50 years,being POSITIVELY proclaimed.Of course now in the publications,a picture is painted that minimizes the importance they attached to these dates,saying that they were predicted as mere "suggestions" or “possibilities.”
"Since the vast majority of their readers have no access to their earlier publications ,the articles can trade on their ignorance and can downplay the force of the predictions by a selective use of quotations and either gloss over or deliberately ignore other clear statements made." p.200 "Crisis of Conscience"
Some of the phrases the WT has incorporated to describe their false predictions were "God's dates","emphatically manifest","firmly established","established truth","definitely marked","already in progress"(in reference to the final battle that was to culminate in 1914),"proven"..etc..
But afterward and now they assert that they "merely infered".This is journalistic and intellectual dishonesty in the highest order.
Another aversion from the truth:
From "Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose" p 53
"SOME may make positive statements of what they know,and of what they do not know,WE NEVER INDULGE IN THIS."
To quote Franz,again.
"This is the picture the organization seeks to convey.Compare it with OTHER statements made in WT publications and magazines ,statements to which the Society's publications today make no reference whatsoever..Ask whether it is true that the responsibility for dogmatic claims rests outside the society,rests instead with those who "read into" the publications a certainty never intended,particularly as regards what 1914 would bring." p.193,"Crisis of Conscience"
Franz is honest here.We have some SERIOUS double-speak,concealing most of the information, playing with semantics to fool people,and blame thrown everywhere but where it really lies.
From "The Time is at Hand" p. 98-99
"We consider it an ESTABLISHED TRUTH that the final end of the kingdoms of this world ,and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God,will be accomplished at the end of A.D 1914"
Hmm.I would say that is,and Franz agrees with me,INDULGING in positive statements and needs nothing to be read into it at all to be dogmatic.
From 1892 Jan 15 WT
"The date of the close of that "battle" is DEFINITELY marked in scripture as Oct 1874."
From July 15 1892 WT
"We see no reason for changing the figures--nor could we change them if we would.They are,we believe,GOD'S DATES,not ours.But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning ,but for the end of the time of trouble."
Who cares if someone says they have an OPINION or the like if they are going to ,in the same breath ,say their opinion is God's?Who cares if someone never said they were inspired if they said they were God's mouthpiece?Who cares if someone never said they were infallibile if they said they are God's channel of communication and modern day prophet?You do not have the right to say you made a mistake but it is ok because you were uninspired and fallible if you are going to assert that these were God's dates,that you are a modern day prophet as God's sole channel of communication and that you are a mouthpiece for God.That just makes you desperate and duplicitous and deceptive.
When 1914 came and went and their false predictions were not met,Charles Taze Russell actually said that "The Lord overruled it for the blessing of his people."-"The Time is at Hand"
Wow!Instead of confessing and repenting of lies and errors that were shamelessly attributed TO GOD,he proceeds to blame God once again for "overruling" a date that was never true to begin with,as if it was always God's date,that he just decided to change his mind about.If you're not gathering by this point how the WT employs semantics to subtly fool its readers and strain itself out of blame,shifting it to others,(even it's own followers and God himself!), instead of confessing and repenting,then it's time to wake up.
"Frequently,in WT argumentation,a "red herring" is dragged across the path ,as in drawing attention away from the failure of the predictions by switching the focus to the willingness of many to stick with and support an organization despite its having fed them false hopes,while representing those who opted not to do as as being "spiritually weak", as "having grown weary in God's service",or being governed by selfish motives...This only accentuates what is perhaps The most distressing factor of the whole matter:the apparent lack of any genuine concern for the EFFECT such predictions had on the lives of people,those WT readers who viewed the predictive measures as coming from a God-directed source,as His divinely provided "meat in due season" for them.They were OPENLY encouraged to allow these predictive claims to serve as a basis for their hopes and expectations,and thus to mold their lives in conformity." p. 202 "Crisis of Conscience"
To quote Franz,who is quoting Charles Taze Russell here
"Merit is found even in the false predictions because of the "stimulating and sanctifying effect"(quoting CTR) produced,so that one may "praise the Lord--even for the mistake".That approach allowed for still more false predictions with their "stimulating effect".One is reminded of Isaiah 5:20: Woe to those who are saying that good is bad and bad is good, those who are putting darkness for light and light for darkness, those who are putting bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!" p.205 "Crisis of Conscience"
After the death of Charles Russell,instead of rectifying and frankly admitting their errors,Judge Rutherford decided to justify their errors and propagate more,moving many of the things expected in 1914 up to 1918.Of course,everything failed.And since it did,why not just change the MEANING of what the dates entailed,after all an "invisible presence" can't be disproven.Keep in mind the bible said all things were handed to Christ when he ascended to heaven and that EVERYONE will know when he is present again,at the second coming.I don't deny he has been present from heaven "sifting" and such for a long time..but,again,the bible says it isn't FOR US to know the times,the dates,the seasons,so to speculate about a specific time is foolish,especially if you've failed TOO MANY times to count before & ruined lives in the process,seemingly from my observation without remorse..No new revelation from man that the apostles and Christ himself didn't preach is a "salvation issue."YET the organization continues to treat 1914 as such because their "entire range of teachings" is a REQUIREMENT to remain an acceptable Jehovah's Witness.If you can find the justice there,then you're a better scout than I.
http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/prophecy/comprehensive-list-of-false-dates-set-by-the-watchtower.html
"Today several millions of Jehovah's Witnesses believe and teach that Christ's invisible presence began in 1914.Very few realize that for nearly 50 years the WT society announced and heralded,in their role as prophet,that such invisible presence began in 1874.As late as 1929,15 yrs. AFTER 1914,they were still teaching this." p.183-184,"Crisis of Conscience"
1.the WT taught for DECADES that Christ began his kingdom rule in 1878.
2.The WT taught for HALF A CENTURY that the "last days" began in 1799
3.For more than 40 yrs. the WT taught that the resurrection of anointed Christians began in 1878.
4.From its beginning,the WT taught that the "harvest" would run from 1874 to 1914 and that by 1914 the destruction of all human institutions of this world would take place.
5.They say now that Babylon the Great fell in 1919.For FOUR DECADES they said 1878,with its COMPLETE destruction culminating in 1914 or 1918.
6.This list could go ON and ON.
The cause for the change?To quote Franz "the failure of their published expectations to be realized."
And those who didn't believe them were not only stumbled,but labelled and shunned.After all,how could they remain a JW unhypocritically if they didn't believe every ounce of information out of the mouths of the governing body since that is the society's dogmatic unjustified standards?To wholeheartedly,and without question,believe everything they say,no matter what ,to remain "acceptable".Otherwise,you would be a risk to the unity of the organization's followers,right?Well,the solution is to STOP BEING DOGMATIC about issues that have nothing to do with anyone's salvation,that Christ and the apostles did not teach as THEIR good news.And to actually read the bible and BELIEVE what it says about nonessential teachings and legalistic standards not being necessary for salvation,like the Pharisees believed they were.And to also believe Jesus when he said it wasn't up to us to know the dates or seasons.Keep on the watch by all means.But stop speculating specific dates that the bible says belongs ONLY to the father to discern.Jehovah's Witnesses often compare their false predictions to the apostles premature expectations as told at Acts 1:6 yet completely ignore what Jesus said rebuking them in the very next verse.There are no more excuses.
Acts 1:7:He (Jesus) said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.(NIV)
These false predictions weren't just passingly proclaimed as possibilities..they were emphatically & confidently declared for decades.Now THIS is part of the record you must consider,as the WT organization says you should,to determine whether they are a "modern-day prophet".And if they are,what kind of prophet are they if their predictions all failed?
The society has said that it is fallible and not dogmatic yet they dogmatically enforce their inferences as if they are infallible and people who don't adhere are not approved JW association.There is a discrepancy here that is inexplicable and again,dictates behavior on the part of supposed "good JW's" and the society itself that is the OPPOSITE of just.
Again,I am going to have to point out that if you had questioned these men in their error you would have been deemed all kinds of blasphemous names and titles,even though these dates were as false as the sun is bright..And this isn't nitpicking history.This is still going on.If a doctrine has the potential to become "new light" tomorrow that means:
1.It may have never been true to begin with.
2.It isn't stable to begin with nor should it be a dogmatism and enforced belief because of it's instability.
3.It is absolutely ridiculous to shun and label fellow Christians for questioning these speculations that are based on unstable biblical interpretations by men that don't even agree with one another to begin with unanimously,yet expect you to adhere to their faulty interpretations wholeheartedly in order to remain a "true Christian" and "acceptable".
The Society's recent publications infer that the serious expectations and dogmatic assertions in regards to all these dates and their fulfillments were the responsibility of the readers and the readers' inferrences from reading the literature!
From Jehovah's Witnesses and the Divine Purpose page 52:
"There is no doubt that many throughout this period were overzealous in their statements as to what could be expected.Some read into the WT statements that were never intended."
As genuine as this might SOUND,a true examination of the evidence reveals their glossing over the facts,their hypocrisy,and their shameless aversion of attention from themselves as the blame for their lies to OTHERS,like the JW's who trust them and even God himself.
"If any expressed doubts about the Society's chronology,the very quality of their relationship with God was subtly placed in question--along with their faith and wisdom.This is a form of intellectual intimidation,a practice that increased manyfold once 1914 had passed by,failing to fulfill the expectations published worldwide." p.198 "Crisis of Conscience"
As Franz points out,there was intense importance and constant emphasis placed on these false dates,in many cases for more than 50 years,being POSITIVELY proclaimed.Of course now in the publications,a picture is painted that minimizes the importance they attached to these dates,saying that they were predicted as mere "suggestions" or “possibilities.”
"Since the vast majority of their readers have no access to their earlier publications ,the articles can trade on their ignorance and can downplay the force of the predictions by a selective use of quotations and either gloss over or deliberately ignore other clear statements made." p.200 "Crisis of Conscience"
Some of the phrases the WT has incorporated to describe their false predictions were "God's dates","emphatically manifest","firmly established","established truth","definitely marked","already in progress"(in reference to the final battle that was to culminate in 1914),"proven"..etc..
But afterward and now they assert that they "merely infered".This is journalistic and intellectual dishonesty in the highest order.
Another aversion from the truth:
From "Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose" p 53
"SOME may make positive statements of what they know,and of what they do not know,WE NEVER INDULGE IN THIS."
To quote Franz,again.
"This is the picture the organization seeks to convey.Compare it with OTHER statements made in WT publications and magazines ,statements to which the Society's publications today make no reference whatsoever..Ask whether it is true that the responsibility for dogmatic claims rests outside the society,rests instead with those who "read into" the publications a certainty never intended,particularly as regards what 1914 would bring." p.193,"Crisis of Conscience"
Franz is honest here.We have some SERIOUS double-speak,concealing most of the information, playing with semantics to fool people,and blame thrown everywhere but where it really lies.
From "The Time is at Hand" p. 98-99
"We consider it an ESTABLISHED TRUTH that the final end of the kingdoms of this world ,and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God,will be accomplished at the end of A.D 1914"
Hmm.I would say that is,and Franz agrees with me,INDULGING in positive statements and needs nothing to be read into it at all to be dogmatic.
From 1892 Jan 15 WT
"The date of the close of that "battle" is DEFINITELY marked in scripture as Oct 1874."
From July 15 1892 WT
"We see no reason for changing the figures--nor could we change them if we would.They are,we believe,GOD'S DATES,not ours.But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning ,but for the end of the time of trouble."
Who cares if someone says they have an OPINION or the like if they are going to ,in the same breath ,say their opinion is God's?Who cares if someone never said they were inspired if they said they were God's mouthpiece?Who cares if someone never said they were infallibile if they said they are God's channel of communication and modern day prophet?You do not have the right to say you made a mistake but it is ok because you were uninspired and fallible if you are going to assert that these were God's dates,that you are a modern day prophet as God's sole channel of communication and that you are a mouthpiece for God.That just makes you desperate and duplicitous and deceptive.
When 1914 came and went and their false predictions were not met,Charles Taze Russell actually said that "The Lord overruled it for the blessing of his people."-"The Time is at Hand"
Wow!Instead of confessing and repenting of lies and errors that were shamelessly attributed TO GOD,he proceeds to blame God once again for "overruling" a date that was never true to begin with,as if it was always God's date,that he just decided to change his mind about.If you're not gathering by this point how the WT employs semantics to subtly fool its readers and strain itself out of blame,shifting it to others,(even it's own followers and God himself!), instead of confessing and repenting,then it's time to wake up.
"Frequently,in WT argumentation,a "red herring" is dragged across the path ,as in drawing attention away from the failure of the predictions by switching the focus to the willingness of many to stick with and support an organization despite its having fed them false hopes,while representing those who opted not to do as as being "spiritually weak", as "having grown weary in God's service",or being governed by selfish motives...This only accentuates what is perhaps The most distressing factor of the whole matter:the apparent lack of any genuine concern for the EFFECT such predictions had on the lives of people,those WT readers who viewed the predictive measures as coming from a God-directed source,as His divinely provided "meat in due season" for them.They were OPENLY encouraged to allow these predictive claims to serve as a basis for their hopes and expectations,and thus to mold their lives in conformity." p. 202 "Crisis of Conscience"
To quote Franz,who is quoting Charles Taze Russell here
"Merit is found even in the false predictions because of the "stimulating and sanctifying effect"(quoting CTR) produced,so that one may "praise the Lord--even for the mistake".That approach allowed for still more false predictions with their "stimulating effect".One is reminded of Isaiah 5:20: Woe to those who are saying that good is bad and bad is good, those who are putting darkness for light and light for darkness, those who are putting bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!" p.205 "Crisis of Conscience"
After the death of Charles Russell,instead of rectifying and frankly admitting their errors,Judge Rutherford decided to justify their errors and propagate more,moving many of the things expected in 1914 up to 1918.Of course,everything failed.And since it did,why not just change the MEANING of what the dates entailed,after all an "invisible presence" can't be disproven.Keep in mind the bible said all things were handed to Christ when he ascended to heaven and that EVERYONE will know when he is present again,at the second coming.I don't deny he has been present from heaven "sifting" and such for a long time..but,again,the bible says it isn't FOR US to know the times,the dates,the seasons,so to speculate about a specific time is foolish,especially if you've failed TOO MANY times to count before & ruined lives in the process,seemingly from my observation without remorse..No new revelation from man that the apostles and Christ himself didn't preach is a "salvation issue."YET the organization continues to treat 1914 as such because their "entire range of teachings" is a REQUIREMENT to remain an acceptable Jehovah's Witness.If you can find the justice there,then you're a better scout than I.
http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/prophecy/comprehensive-list-of-false-dates-set-by-the-watchtower.html
Sunday, December 27, 2009
1914 and "Crisis of Conscience"
In defense of the failed watchtower dates set in the past for all those events that they erroneously foretold,all the while attributing them to God in various phraseologies,you will often hear Jehovah's Witnesses defend the society,saying that the organization never said they were infallible or inspired.JW's will absolutely break out a plethora of quotes to prove that these men said they "did not know" and hence are NOT false prophets.I was one of those Jehovah's witnesses.I even wrote a blog defending them pertinaciously in regards to these matters.I was ill informed,however and decided to remove that particular blog.Here's why.And much of this is inspired by or taken directly from the HIGHLY recommended,especially for Jehovah's Witnesses,book "Crisis of Conscience" written by former governing body member Raymond Franz,a meek and well intentioned Christian who wanted to expose the hypocrisy and injustice,having witnessed it closely himself,within the society's operations.I want to make a very serious point for the Jehovah's witnesses reading this..I mean this earnestly& sincerely.You are NOT reading a book that will kill you more quickly then pornography would if you read this book.You are reading something that may save you from "putting your trust in men,in whom no salvation belongs".It is a MUST read.Don't let anyone stop you!And no it didn't cause me to disassociate from the society..I was already resolved to do that before I ever touched this book.What I found when I opened it was a man after my own heart,propagating truth and justice for those who I think he really loves,Jehovah's witnesses.Now I really don't need to go over the various dates that have been set by various men within the society,some of which didn't originate with the WT society or Charles Taze Russell but other men or sects from whom they just borrowed them,changing the meaning of them when their expectations weren't fulfilled after the dates had come and gone(because they had to!)..pushing dates forward or simply redefining what they mean,as they did with 1914.First it meant the absolute end..now it just means "invisible presence" which conveniently for them is impossible to disprove.It's like trying to disprove an imaginary friend.Suffice to say Jesus didn't preach it and if it is the good news of the kingdom then the apostles weren't preaching the good news of the kingdom..No need to add to the bible's succint good news with speculation.No need to keep haughtily setting dates when it reality you should've humbled yourself long ago and ceased from doing so,having been humiliated with falsely proclaiming them over and over in the past.The bible even lets us know it isn't up to us to know these things.
Acts 1:7:He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority."(Really,nothing more even needs to be said as powerful as Jesus's words are..)
Judge Rutherford said of his predictions about 1925,which was when he said Christ's millenial rule would be fully manifest on earth,"I know I made an ass of myself"
And to quote Ray Franz,as I will be doing frequently in blogs if I continue writing on this, as his words are much more eloquent than mine and his wisdom is far more pronounced ..
"It is one thing for a man to make an "ass" of himself because of wanting to see something happen.It is quite another thing for him to urge others to share his views,to criticize them if they do not,even to question their faith or impugn their motives if they do not see the matter as he sees it"..p 174,"Crisis of Conscience"
Now these points Franz makes are still very much relevant today.If you question 1914,you aren't just questioning men or an organization,you are questioning "Jehovah's sole channel of communication","Jehovah's appointed faithful and discreet slave class".You suddenly get to bear titles that would degrade anyone's integrity were they true such as "apostate","spiritually weak","worldy" ,"the walking dead","bad association" etc,especially with no eventual conformity.In other words,to question the society is thought of as the equivalent of questioning God himself,ultimately.The literature encourages this thinking.As will be evidenced later in other blogs as I reveal more realities Franz exposes within the organization.Ray goes on to say,and I think this information is relevant when JW's tell us the apostles had the SAME KINDS of premature expectations as they did.Please keep in mind the apostles ASKED Christ what was going to happen as opposed to claiming it as God's proclamation and proceeding to propagate it to countless people for decades..numerous times.
"It is still more serious for an organization representing itself as God's appointed spokesman to all mankind to do this--and to do it,not for a few days or months,but for years,even decades,repeatedly,on an earthwide basis.This kind of responsibility CANNOT be shrugged off by saying "well..nobody's perfect"..No one is but everyone of us bears a responsibility for what we do.And that is especially so when our actions may dramatically affect something as important and personal as others' relationship with God...No less serious is it when a group of men have DIVIDED views on predictions related to a certain date and yet present to their adherents an outward appearance of UNITED confidence,encouraging those adherents to place unwavering trust in those predictions"..p174 ,"Crisis of Conscience"
From these revelations from a former governing body member himself,we can discern that the WT is far from honest or at least certainly hides information,giving false impressions.We are expected to assume that Christ is working through each anointed member of the governing body and that they would be in full agreement on every matter before they force us to,but no..they are divided..Again,this screams injustice!How can we trust divided opinions to be from God?And why are we expected to adhere to an opinion that the bible isn't clear enough about for a few men to all agree on it because it isn't a succint bible belief,presented indisputably?How in the world could someone justifiably not be considered a real acceptable saved sheep for questioning something that precarious?If God is a God of justice and his sheep in the past have questioned these men's PROVEN lies and were punished in whatever way for it,why would that be acceptable to God?
Observe the following quotes from the WT magazine.I think they are beyond revealing and should be acknowledged by JW's in application to themselves as opposed to being applied to everyone BUT themselves.I repeat :the JW's should not be exempt from their own standards!How would that be fair?Again,God hates hypocrisy and DEMANDS fairness.
from April 1,1972 Watchtower
"Of course,it is easy to see that this group acts as a "prophet" of God.It is another thing to prove it.The only way that this can be done is to review the record.What does it show?"
Well,when I review the record I find men who have falsely made predictions that they said were God's dates while saying that they were acting as God's mouthpiece and God's channel of communication,saying that to question their speculations would be the equivalent of questioning God and Christ(proof below),then when their lies didn't come to pass blaming it again on God.Never truly repenting but instead using propagandist language to make the "rank and file" believe that they never did anything wrong at all.
One example of comparing questioning them to questioning the Lord:
from May 1,1922 WT
"To repudiate him(Charles Russell) is the equivalent to a repudiation of the Lord."
Yikes.Check out this one
May 15 1922 WT
"the Lord has placed the stamp of his seal upon 1914 and 1918 beyond any possibility of erasure."
from May 1 ,1997 Watchtower
"Jehovah God is the Grand Identifier of his true messengers.He identifies them by making the messages he delivers through them come true.Jehovah is also the Great Exposer of false messengers.He frustrates their signs and predictions.In this way he shows that they are self appointed prognosticators,whose messages really spring from their own false reasoning--yes,their foolish,fleshly thinking!"
Wow!That's from 1997.Amazing.And I am seriously not trying to be sarcastic.I am just stunned.
Suffice to say that all the events that supposedly took place in 1914 acc to the JW's today were attributed to DIFFERENT dates in the past .I have no idea at this point why this one lasted at all after "reviewing the record".In 1874 they said the end would come..it didn't .So instead "Christ's invisible presence" did.The end was also supposed to occur in 1914 and since it didn't "Christ's invisible presence" did..Notice a pattern here?"New light" seems to flash usually when a false prediction doesn't come to pass and is forced upon the society as opposed to any honestly genuine enlightening truth from Jehovah through Christ.I would urge anyone to hesitate before presuming this date came straight from God.Remember,do what the WT says and first "review the record" to make sure.What do YOU find?
More on this later.
Acts 1:7:He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority."(Really,nothing more even needs to be said as powerful as Jesus's words are..)
Judge Rutherford said of his predictions about 1925,which was when he said Christ's millenial rule would be fully manifest on earth,"I know I made an ass of myself"
And to quote Ray Franz,as I will be doing frequently in blogs if I continue writing on this, as his words are much more eloquent than mine and his wisdom is far more pronounced ..
"It is one thing for a man to make an "ass" of himself because of wanting to see something happen.It is quite another thing for him to urge others to share his views,to criticize them if they do not,even to question their faith or impugn their motives if they do not see the matter as he sees it"..p 174,"Crisis of Conscience"
Now these points Franz makes are still very much relevant today.If you question 1914,you aren't just questioning men or an organization,you are questioning "Jehovah's sole channel of communication","Jehovah's appointed faithful and discreet slave class".You suddenly get to bear titles that would degrade anyone's integrity were they true such as "apostate","spiritually weak","worldy" ,"the walking dead","bad association" etc,especially with no eventual conformity.In other words,to question the society is thought of as the equivalent of questioning God himself,ultimately.The literature encourages this thinking.As will be evidenced later in other blogs as I reveal more realities Franz exposes within the organization.Ray goes on to say,and I think this information is relevant when JW's tell us the apostles had the SAME KINDS of premature expectations as they did.Please keep in mind the apostles ASKED Christ what was going to happen as opposed to claiming it as God's proclamation and proceeding to propagate it to countless people for decades..numerous times.
"It is still more serious for an organization representing itself as God's appointed spokesman to all mankind to do this--and to do it,not for a few days or months,but for years,even decades,repeatedly,on an earthwide basis.This kind of responsibility CANNOT be shrugged off by saying "well..nobody's perfect"..No one is but everyone of us bears a responsibility for what we do.And that is especially so when our actions may dramatically affect something as important and personal as others' relationship with God...No less serious is it when a group of men have DIVIDED views on predictions related to a certain date and yet present to their adherents an outward appearance of UNITED confidence,encouraging those adherents to place unwavering trust in those predictions"..p174 ,"Crisis of Conscience"
From these revelations from a former governing body member himself,we can discern that the WT is far from honest or at least certainly hides information,giving false impressions.We are expected to assume that Christ is working through each anointed member of the governing body and that they would be in full agreement on every matter before they force us to,but no..they are divided..Again,this screams injustice!How can we trust divided opinions to be from God?And why are we expected to adhere to an opinion that the bible isn't clear enough about for a few men to all agree on it because it isn't a succint bible belief,presented indisputably?How in the world could someone justifiably not be considered a real acceptable saved sheep for questioning something that precarious?If God is a God of justice and his sheep in the past have questioned these men's PROVEN lies and were punished in whatever way for it,why would that be acceptable to God?
Observe the following quotes from the WT magazine.I think they are beyond revealing and should be acknowledged by JW's in application to themselves as opposed to being applied to everyone BUT themselves.I repeat :the JW's should not be exempt from their own standards!How would that be fair?Again,God hates hypocrisy and DEMANDS fairness.
from April 1,1972 Watchtower
"Of course,it is easy to see that this group acts as a "prophet" of God.It is another thing to prove it.The only way that this can be done is to review the record.What does it show?"
Well,when I review the record I find men who have falsely made predictions that they said were God's dates while saying that they were acting as God's mouthpiece and God's channel of communication,saying that to question their speculations would be the equivalent of questioning God and Christ(proof below),then when their lies didn't come to pass blaming it again on God.Never truly repenting but instead using propagandist language to make the "rank and file" believe that they never did anything wrong at all.
One example of comparing questioning them to questioning the Lord:
from May 1,1922 WT
"To repudiate him(Charles Russell) is the equivalent to a repudiation of the Lord."
Yikes.Check out this one
May 15 1922 WT
"the Lord has placed the stamp of his seal upon 1914 and 1918 beyond any possibility of erasure."
from May 1 ,1997 Watchtower
"Jehovah God is the Grand Identifier of his true messengers.He identifies them by making the messages he delivers through them come true.Jehovah is also the Great Exposer of false messengers.He frustrates their signs and predictions.In this way he shows that they are self appointed prognosticators,whose messages really spring from their own false reasoning--yes,their foolish,fleshly thinking!"
Wow!That's from 1997.Amazing.And I am seriously not trying to be sarcastic.I am just stunned.
Suffice to say that all the events that supposedly took place in 1914 acc to the JW's today were attributed to DIFFERENT dates in the past .I have no idea at this point why this one lasted at all after "reviewing the record".In 1874 they said the end would come..it didn't .So instead "Christ's invisible presence" did.The end was also supposed to occur in 1914 and since it didn't "Christ's invisible presence" did..Notice a pattern here?"New light" seems to flash usually when a false prediction doesn't come to pass and is forced upon the society as opposed to any honestly genuine enlightening truth from Jehovah through Christ.I would urge anyone to hesitate before presuming this date came straight from God.Remember,do what the WT says and first "review the record" to make sure.What do YOU find?
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