Wednesday, December 9, 2009

The truth about Hellfire

This was in a debate about hell between Dan Mages,Steve Scianni,and Patrick Navas with Gene Cook and 2 other traditionalists.I will provide the link for Dan Mages' podcasts where I found this.Dan Mages and Steve Scianni are speaking in these portions(you can listen to the whole thing on the link..just click on the podcast about hell..obviously)

I am amazed and appalled at the traditionalists' attack on these 3 men(in the entirety of the debate.this is what ppl do when thay have no REAL biblical defense..they tell you you don't have the holy spirit to help you understand God's son is God or the wicked won't just perish) just because they take words like consumed destroyed death and perish literally,taking the LITERAL few scriptures that supposedly prove the "hellfire" doctrine in context of the OT scriptures that explain their symbolism..If you're a Christian watching this,it is time to wake up..You don't know who you worship!God is love.If he tells you that immortal worms and unquenchable fire are on CARCASSES and that eternal fire means DESTRUCTION and that weeping and gnashing of teeth means anger (which would be normal when one is being judged!)and that the CONSEQUENCES of nouns of action when paired with "eternal" are generally what's eternal as opposed to the action itself(eternal sin,eternal judgment,eternal destruction etc) then you should listen.And it doesn't matter who or what someone is,if they are trying to help you understand that immortality is a GIFT that does not BELONG to the wicked and that souls can die.these are biblical facts.Like I said,time to wake up.

My question to you is..are you going to take what the bible teaches clearly and irrefutably from Genesis to Revelation..that the wicked shall perish and return to dust OR are you going to take a literal few symbolic texts that you think prove something that the bible explains in OT passages(yes folks..the symbolism is explained for you) literally and call it justice when temporary sin that we INHERITED is punished with a literal eternal fire(that the bible says means destruction) and then profess to know that God is love and tempers his justice with mercy and shall make a world anew where mourning and sin and death will exist NOWHERE?Seriously?As an orthodox believer,you believe he will extend mourning and sin and "eternal dying" forever after.That is incongruent with his plans to reveal his glory and his promised way of doing so!By eliminating all the things you think he will preserve.

If you ignore blatant logic and explicit biblical statements like the fate God promised Adam then don't be surprised if God questions your perception of him and the definition of justice and love and reason.If you take symbolic hyperbolic passages literally and proclaim that gehenna preserved what was thrown in it alive,don't be surprised if God exposes your reliance upon tradition instead of fact and reason and truth.I say all this not to seem pushy or shattering of long held traditions that are difficult to sever but simply to point out the truth that MUST be embraced in order to properly understand God and his Son and their kingdom.Admittedly,this orthodox belief confounds me in a most disturbing way.Not because I don't WANT to accept what the bible teaches,but because I understand what it does and consider this teaching blasphemous,a grand and inexcusable error.

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