Monday, May 10, 2010

Why do trinitarians omit relevant facts?

Trinitarians are fond of doing something I've seen appropriately called "misuse of similarities" to prove Jesus is the same God his father is.They play a game of pretend and omission.I'm not sure how honest it is to ignore the fact that NUMEROUS OT passages applied to people like David,Solomon,Nebuchadnezzar,Melchizedek(in addition to a few about Jehovah which is their ONLY focus while they're trying to prove Jesus is the True God with this method) are ALSO applied to God's Christ,God's servant and Son,King Jesus,in the New Testament.Also,many foreshadowings of the Messiah in the lives and life work of people like Moses and Joseph are fulfilled in Christ in a greater way.With trinitarian standards and logic,because Jesus is foreshadowed by these men and passages applied to them are also applied to Christ,Jesus is a person in the being of a number of beings,from David to Moses and not just himself(The Son/Messiah of God) anymore..Interestingly and unfairly,they often don't point out what is commonly done in the bible apply the same passages used of others in the OT to Jesus in the NT in DIFFERENT FULFILMENTS AND APPLICATIONS.They simply present that some about Yah are applied to Jesus,not that those about others besides Yah are as well.Wonder why they omit that information?The reason why this is disturbing is because if someone who is witnessed to doesn't know this,he or she can be fooled that this only happens with Yah and Jesus and assume the trinitarian omitting vital facts could be proving something that isn't true.In other words,their omissions are fodder for potential deception.Let me demonstrate exactly what they're doing and what conclusions we will reach using their reason(which is unreasonable) and their logic(which is illogical) and their standards(which are dangerous.)I don't personally think it's right to prove something with a standard that omits relevant facts.Now,let's get started.

First let's give an example of trinitarian reasoning.They say that since Yah and Jesus are BOTH called the rock of offense in a passage applied to both of them at different times that they have to be the same God!(1 Peter 2:8,Is. 8:14)BOTH of them are rocks of offense to disobedient unbelievers.All one needs to do is recognize how the texts applied to both have different fulfillments in each and pertain to both.If Jesus and Jehovah are both called the rock of offense does that mean they share a substance and being?Given scriptural applications of the same texts to more than one being at different times in different fulfillments and applications commonly in scripture,of course not!Obviously,because God is too holy to walk amongst unholy mankind,he is our rock THROUGH others,making those he works through our rocks too.Just like Jesus's light shining through his followers means not only is Jesus our light but those he shines through are too.Or when elders comfort us,God is our comforter through the elders if they're good shepherds like his firstborn was.When people are called saviors in scripture even though the bible says God is the only savior,it is because no one could save without God saving through them.The bible says God saves through Christ. :-)Suffice it to say that when God works through Jesus as his chief agent in all things and gives him all power in heaven and on earth as his inheritance as the one he made firstborn,many of the same phrases could be used and many of the same things could be said of both.This occurs in different applications and fulfillments because God uses and highly exalts his Christ and Son and accomplishes so much through his agency,essentially making Jesus the great Amen.

This in the book of Samuel is said about Solomon:

2 Samuel 7:14:I will be his father, and he will be my son.

This in the book of Hebrews is said about Christ

Hebrews 1:5:"I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"?

So using trinitarian standards and logic the ONLY possible conclusion(which would be an erroneous and absurd one) is that Jesus is the same being Solomon is!Two separate sons,same substance.That's the way it would have to be according to trinitarians because with their logic a passage applied to one then applied to Jesus makes Jesus a person of the substance of that someone.

Let's examine
Psalm 45:6,7:Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.

This is a psalm first fulfilled,according to most scholars,in King Solomon.How in the world could King Solomon also be called God?Because in Hebraic times God's kings and agents and exalted servants representing him could sometimes be called God(gasp!),like Moses was in Exodus 7:1 and 4:16.How come trinitarians ignore this?

These exact words about Solomon,who,like Jesus,had a God,were also attributed to Jesus in Hebrews 1:9 & 10..the EXACT same words.By trinitarian logic,this HAS TO mean Jesus is Solomon,again.

Nebuchadnezzar is called "king of kings" in Daniel 2:37.Jesus is in Revelation 17:14.A facsimile to a typical trinitarian argument in relation to when similar phrases are used of Yah and Jesus both would be "Well,no one but one being could be called king of kings..There's only ONE king of kings..How could there be two?Therefore Nebuchadnezzar and Jesus must share a substance and a being!"

We all know many things said of Melchizedek are also precisely said of Jesus and we also know logically they don't share a substance either.

So,again,WHY do similar phraseologies or passages applied to both Yah and Christ mean they have to share a substance and being,nothing the bible EVER mentions?

Now to address all the texts first applied to David and Solomon then is some logic I already used in another blog:

Is saying "well ,David and Solomon foreshadowed or were a type of Christ so it isn't the same thing" a good reason to be bias when the same texts are applied to both them and Christ and that's the only reason THEY don't have to share a substance?No.Because the same texts are applied to both for the same reasons the ones about Yah are applied to Jesus...DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS AND FULFILLMENTS and pertaining to BOTH in different ways ..that simple.In other words,to be fair and unbiased ,if you are going to assume Jesus is Jehovah by this reasoning,then you MUST assume Jesus is David and Solomon(and others),unless you're simply unwilling to be unbiased.

It should be no surprise that calling on the name of Jesus (In Joel it says to call on Yah's Romans Jesus's)and proskeneo'ing(oft translated as worship or bow down to or honor) Jesus is very important ,just as it is important to do so of Jehovah.Therefore just because,like we've demonstrated the bible commonly does,there may be a text that says to worship Yah then it's also applied to Jesus,doesn't mean they have to share a substance but rather that Jesus is King now and we must honor him to the glory of the one who commands this as that one's extoller.In Hebraic times Yah's kings were proskeneo'd with people's faces to the ground.One clear example where God's king is worshiped at the same time God is is found in:

*1 Chronicles 29:20:Then David said to the whole assembly, "Praise the LORD your God." So they all praised the LORD, the God of their fathers; they bowed low and fell prostrate before the LORD and the king.

With common trinitarian logic,the king would have to be a person of God's substance for this to be acceptable.Or perhaps the trinitarian would say that the king here would be insane to accept this worship if he too weren't God.But then again,with anyone but Christ,they would know better!

Trinitarian arguments are often simply bias and blind.

The bible says all of Jesus,who isn't a split personality and 200 percent,was faithful and loved enough for his father to command that he be honored highly,similar to how Yah commands the synagogue of Satan to proskeneo(translated worship) faithful Christians that he also loves in Revelation 3:9,BECAUSE he loves them and,well,God IS love.Jesus is more exalted and important than they by far but being the second most high person in the universe means one ISN'T the most high.(1 Corinthians 15:27,28).. Jesus worships the same God who COMMANDED the angels to worship Jesus because of Christ's faithfulness,goodness,obedience,and inheritance,and not due to ontology.At least I can't find anywhere where it is said ontologically Christ requires worship to the glory of another equal substance existing in the same God that he is..

Jehovah reveals himself through his agent Jesus.This fact should make for an easy understanding of why certain things could be said of both.

All power in heaven and on earth has been given Jesus.The difference is..all power was given Jesus whereas no power has ever been given God.And to say all power was given a nature from the first person of the same being of which that human nature is 100 of 200 percent of the second person of that SAME triune being is absurd in the highest order.Should be no surprise that calling on the name of Jesus,through whom Yah is working and saving and resurrecting and judging and blessing,has tremendous power,second only to Yah's name,which is actually wrapped up in Jesus's.After all,Jesus means "Jehovah is salvation."Even if Jesus can be called Yah as Yah's agent according to the Hebrew law of agency or as a surname,the bible makes it clear that whatever name Jesus has was given him.As if ANYONE ever had to give God or a nature a name!Jesus is the mediator between God and man,the great Amen,in whom God sustains all things and blesses all things,through whom He saves,resurrects,judges and glorifies others.Praise them both as The Only True God and his Son and king,as opposed to the Only true God that includes his own son in the same entity unless you want to do something scripture doesn't tell you to do!Because then you would be worshipping a Platonic Greek philosophical unbiblical God.Jesus has a God.There is a God OF the Lord Jesus Christ and all that could possibly mean is that the one God MADE to be our Lord isn't the same God who made him Lord.If the Most High has a God,then he's no longer the Most High God.Obviously,the Most High is the Only True God,the God of Jesus Christ.To say God has a God within his own being..that the second person of God's God is superior only in a functional but not an ontological way..that father and son is simply relational terminology and not what it naturally would mean are clearly not asserted in scripture.These are MANMADE arguments,introduced from Platonically schooled men,not scripture.Those who will suggest that I'm ignoring the incarnation..why yes I am because it's not a scriptural truth.God didn't become a man,allowing his fully God nature to hibernate while his fully man nature took over when he desired it to,but rather sent a son to become the Last Adam,fully man,perfect,like his brothers in every way,obedient,faithful and true like the first perfect man was not,vindicating God's sovereignty by proving that man(someone TRULY man with God's spirit upon him and nothing else..anything beyond that is Gnostic) can love,obey and succumb to God wholeheartedly.If Jesus was God the whole truth of all that Jesus actually accomplished would be negated.Like proving that man CAN be true to God..NOT that the second person of God's substance can be true to the first person of God's substance.God can't die and a nature can't "sleep" etc..but that's a whole other story.

No Son of God,not even the only uniquest most exalted one born of a virgin womb,is the same God whose son he is,who sent him forth.Either Jesus lied when he said his father was the only true God and confirmed the Shema as his statement of faith,(and no Jew thought God was three people),OR trinitarians are lying that Jesus's father isn't the Only True God.Jesus worshipped the True God ,the One God of the Shema,the same God of the OT Jews,who was One person(Mark 12:28-34)..If Jesus's God isn't 3 people,why is yours?As Christians,aren't we supposed to follow Jesus and do what he did?Well,Jesus,all of his being and not just a nature attached to someone fully God, worshiped his father as the only True God.Mr.Trinitarian,if you're truly sola scriptura,then John 17:3 is as crystal clear and unprecarious a text as is possible.A beautiful scriptural formula that I would say is an inspired irrefutable creed.It doesn't gel so well with the Nicene one.

No comments:

Post a Comment