Monday, January 25, 2010
John 2:19-21 for trinitarians.Did Jesus really die for you?
Watch the whole video please for some important reasoning.Then read this blog for something to ponder:
http://putawaythatmeat.blogspot.com/2009/03/trinity-on-trialstolen-from-another.html
I present here SEVERAL possible interpretations of John 2:19-21,none of which I am dogmatic about.The most likely one to my reasoning is the figurative one.Jesus really died and God's definition of death is a cessation of breath & life.(When your spirit returns to God that means you have to count on Him to restore your breath of life in the resurrection.Just like he breathed into Adam's nostrils that breath of life animating Adam and giving him breath & life.Adam was NOT ALIVE until he did.And he didn't blow into Adam's nostrils a separate person/entity.He did the same thing for Jesus on the third day.And he'll do the same thing for us in the resurrection like he did for Jesus.)Simply put,if you believe Jesus was breathing(when our spirits leave us that means our breath does),had consciousness(ec. 9:5), and was able to think while he was dead(ps 146:4),then you neither believe God's definition of death nor that Jesus died at all.That is SERIOUS.Does metaphorical sleeping(used to connote God's ability to wake one up in a resurrection) actually suggest to you "wide awake somewhere?"(Matthew 9:23-25, John 11:11-14, Jeremiah 51:39, Acts 7:60)If not,again,from where did you get your definition of death?Again,if our spirits leave us that doesn't mean we're alive.It means we lost our ability to think,move,exist and breathe!And only God can return those abilities when He resurrects us through Christ,just like he did FOR Christ on the THIRD day.Amazingly,Christians think when our breath(aka spirit) leaves us that means a separate entity escapes immortal.Philosophy of man has erased truth for Christians on this integral matter.It also allows them to hold tight to the trinity doctrine because they know God cannot die.One lie leads to another.
I found this in my documents but can't find the site addy :(It's from a webpage though and ALSO makes sense to me!)When I said there are many possible interpretations I wasn't kidding.
Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it. (1 Cor 12:27)
It should be clear from scripture, then, that Jesus was referring to his spiritual body—his Church—when he said after three days he will raise it up. And sure enough, this was his primary objective after his resurrection—the raising up of Christians into his spiritual body, who would comprise Gods temple, and in whom the Holy Spirit would dwell. They would carry on his work into the future, down to our day. Indeed, on the very evening of his resurrection, precisely and immediately after the three days of death, he appears to disciples, commissions them, and breathes on them saying, receive the Holy Spirit. (Jn 20:19-22). He thus begins the raising up of his body as he prophesied.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
I used to think this the church as well, but I don't think the NT can support this when closely examined.
ReplyDeleteWe should consider two aspects of language, one prophetic and another of powerful works in general. With the first, a prophet could speak of doing something while only being the one to deliver the prophecy itself:
Ezekiel 43:3 And it was like the appearance of the vision that I had seen, like the vision that I saw when I came to bring the city to ruin; and there were appearances like the appearance that I saw by the river Che´bar, and I went falling upon my face.
Now also, we know Jesus told the woman her faith had made her well. In a similar way consider what this verse says regarding Jesus' own involvement in his resurrection:
Hebrews 5:7 In the days of his flesh [Christ] offered up supplications and also petitions to the One who was able to save him out of death, with strong outcries and tears, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear.
My questions for Trinitarians is this: If Jesus raised himself, what role did he play in light of the scriptural teaching that the Father raised him as well? Hebrews 5:7 defines a role, but can another be shown elsewhere? So far I've yet to see one supplied.
Excellent points Dave.Any reasoning person could look at Heb. 5:7(and MANY others) and know Jesus did not resurrect himself.Also,the only explanation at this point I have for people not being able to understand what death really is is that if they admit it,it would also prove Jesus can't be God and they'd do anything to keep from doing so..or that God allows them to remain blind because that's what they desire at this point.Because scripture couldn't be clearer.
ReplyDeleteBelieving a promise of God yields results. If I say I will receive God's goodness, the only way I could say this is if I actually believed God's Word. We can move mountains when we believe. We believe that the promise of God is true. God backs up His Word, His promises to us. Jesus Christ's words had the integrity of a perfect savior. I do the will of Him who sent me. That includes believing that God will raise him up. He believed that. No one receives anything (a specific request) from God without believing. He believed, therefore, he could say so. Paul stated, we believe, therefore, we speak. When a person recognizes that that they are born again, the realize that heaven is guaranteed to them. They can say,"I am going to heaven." Are they going by their own power? No, absolutely not. It is by God's power. Likewise, as in I Thessalonians 4:13-18, those that have died in Christ, "asleep" because they will be woke up, I could say,"I will rise from the dead" Not literally, in the sense of by my own power, yet I will rise from the dead, because God's Word promises that. God's Word promised Jesus Christ that his body would not see corruption, that he would be raised. Well, overly long, but the point is made. Thanks for your patience.
ReplyDeleteAs an additional example to the above, Paul, in Acts 27:22-26, says, "there shall be no loss of any man's life..." He said that because he believed the promise of God. His believing was required to bring it to pass. Remember Jesus told the woman healed of the issue of blood, "your faith (or believing) has made you whole.." Likewise, Paul believed, therefore he spoke. It was God's ability believed that brought the result.
ReplyDeleteThanks so much for your thoughts Anonymous!
ReplyDeleteGood points.:-)