Monday, August 23, 2010

Responses to email concerns about my Socinian Christology..Did Jesus pre-exist?

This is part of a couple mails I sent to people with an Arian Christology(in that they think Christ preexisted without having to hold to every belief Arius had,as no one is sure of that since his writings were burned)One thing I've learned is that those with an "Arian" type Christology disagree amongst themselves who Jesus was before he came here and who he is now.As I've said before,to me this is a red flag.

In response to one guy's assertion that Christ was raised a life giving spirit(1 Cor. 15:45) and that this somehow proves he isn't a glorified man(Acts 17:31,1 Tim 2:5):

You say you think Jesus was raised a spirit..I do too..but in what respect?The answer is in the context.A LIFE GIVER,a spiritualized BODY(verse 44).In this respect is he a pneuma..encompassing what the holy spirit accomplishes.The life and spirit he is filled to the tip top with BODILY(Colossians 2:9..correct?) gives life to the world.Like soul,I am assuming "spirit" can either refer to the life of a person or the entire person.I could be called a soul,a spirit(though not in the same respect as Yahshua as lifegiver!),or a body.Also,as a reasoning point..God is love.Does this mean God is LITERALLY the virtue love or that he is so full of it's power that he can be called love?Clearly the context of 1 Corinthians 15:35-54 is all about BODIES,perishable and corruptible ones being distinguished from imperishable,immortal,and incorruptible spiritual ones.Nothing in this chapter about disembodiment unless you simply read the text you're using without context.Jesus said after he was raised that he was not a spirit..but that he had flesh and we will have at the resurrection.His body was raised and made so new as to be almost unrecognizable I'm sure,just like ours will be.(1 Cor. 15:44,53)Yahshua's resurrected life giving spiritual body is being emphasized against the first Adam's that didn't have that life giving power,that same spirit."Pneuma" here simply means lifegiver.The stone was rolled away by a real corporeal flesh body/person.Was Christ trying to fool everyone by saying he wasn't a spirit and doing things like rolling a stone away so his body could pass?(Luke 24:39,Mark 16:4)

In response to someone using Hebrews 1:3,which says:"He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature":

You also seem to think Jesus being the copy and imprint of God means he has to be the same substance,made of the same stuff.In a respect he is in that he has so much of God's spirit that he is.(John 3:34)However,this doesn't eradicate the fact that this spirit dwells in him in bodily form.(Col 2:9)Charakter(the greek word for express image) would certainly connote that Yahshua is just like his father.But let's pretend I was a spirit no one could see and I worked through another who people COULD see as my representative and viceregent,that representative could be said to be my express image if I had the power to fill them bodily with something called holy spirit by which I perform through others my will.He or she would be my copy in that he said and did what I would,had the same personality,and conformed to my will.Hupostasis(greek for nature or person) can mean to be the exact representative of someone's person or nature would be easy for Yahshua because God works through him and he is that one's image.(Acts 2:22,John 10:25,Colossians 1:15)So full,again,of Yahweh's spirit(John 3:34),that he exactly does and says what Yahweh would say and do.(John 5:30,12:49)Does this mean he doesn't have the fullness corporeally?Of course not.The bible says he does.(Colossians 2:9)And Jesus himself testified to being raised bodily in the flesh.(John 2:19-21,1 John 4:3,Luke 24:39)The bible still calls Jesus a corporeal man,glorified and exalted beyond match,but it says what it says(Acts 17:31,1 Tim. 2:5).There is no grander testimony to God's will and personality and nature than Yahshua the Messiah.

In response to a guy saying he doesn't know what Jesus was in his preexistent form but knows he was called "Word":

As for Jesus supposedly being a preexistent being named "Word"..this is foreign to the bible upon thoughtful examination.It was the word from Yahweh's MOUTH that he created by(Psalm 33:6)..that same word,encompassing Yahweh's self expression,plans,and creative will(Isaiah 55:11,Revelation 4:11),became flesh in John 1:14 when Yahshua fulfilled God's prophecies,greatest plans,and creative will.All things were created in Yahshua as God foreknew his role as the sustainer of all things by means of his obedience,death,resurrection,and redemptive power.(Heb. 1:3,Ephesians 1:9, 10, 20-23, 2:10, 15 )God knew his desired will & creation could never be ultimately realized,fulfilled,or sustained without the Son that was slain from the foundation of the world(Rev. 13:8) in God's foreknowledge and plans.(1 Peter 1:20)In this respect,the original creation was made in Christ.And in a more literal capacity,the new creation is brought about by Yahshua as master and Lord and king,heir of all things,through whom God gives life to the world.(2 Cor. 5:17, 18,1 John 1:2,2:24,25)If it was the word from God's mouth that he created by,why would this suggest to you that a person named Word was next to him creating for him?Yahshua and the apostles only ever spoke of Yahweh their God and father resting on the 7th day and creating in genesis.(Heb 4:3,4)Why would they not mention Jesus was there helping as agent?That would be a serious point to omit.

HE who created them from the beginning(Matt. 19:4)

the creation which GOD created(Mark 13:19).

appointed him (Yahshua)over the works of Your (Yahweh's)hands (Heb. 2:7)

And finally in response to a couple people who have accused me of denigrating my Lord and master:

Yahshua is my king,Lord,savior,Messiah,mediator,father,brother..the love of my life,what God intended for men to be.The forerunner and firstborn of many brothers .God has given him the spirit fully to make all the righteous anew in his image.My intercessor,my glory,my redeemer,my hope ,my way,truth and life.If that's nothing special,then the bible doesn't think Yahshua is special.If that's a denigration,then we should all be so blessed to be denigrated.

What's so ironic is that Yahshua and others of the earliest times of Christianity were persecuted and hated for believing a MAN,as opposed to God,a godman ,or some literally ancient being,could be so glorified,gifted,and loved by Yahweh.That he could be Lord and king of all things,could be extolled to the inimitable position Christ now possesses by the love and generosity of Yahweh and not because of some "nature" or "age."(Luke 3:22,Phil. 2:6-11,Heb. 1:9)But that would be the case nevertheless according to my understanding.Is history repeating itself?People are STILL offended when you say Yahshua was and is still a man,without adding other natures to make him worthy of the titles and positions he holds..Greater than any other in a million respects,but nevertheless,the Last Adam.He is Lord and king and lifegiver to be sure,but all granted by Yahweh for this to be so.Why CAN'T Yah give this to the genuine flesh Last Adam,as opposed to an archangel,a spirit creature who's "old enough" or another supposed member of his "being" as an excuse for this functional equality and exaltation?Could it be our traditions that make us think this notion is somehow repelling?And not scripture itself?God is love..Yahshua deserves that love..And we are made by Yahweh in Yahshua,who is our lifegiver by means of what he's accomplished and been given,as opposed to lifegiver literally by hand.We are given life in and through him.It's incredible in the most poignant way imaginable.Praise Yahweh and Yahshua!

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