Saturday, September 19, 2009

21crosscheck21 posts a sensationalized video PLUS a bonus hell rant

I urge everyone to go to youtube to watch this video and read ABibleReader's comments about what the mother said about this tragedy..She thinks it was murder. Also,ABibleReader made some logical truthful comments about how Christians traumatize kids with hellfire preachin' consistently.(I personally was traumatized by my great grandpa's passionate preaching about it when I was little)As well as facts about how prominent suicide is for boys this age.So to isolate a JW case and blame it on the WT when NOTHING is known is just bizarre.This is a tragedy to be sure ..That is why I hate to see it being exploited when no one knows the facts!!

WHY else do I think it was wrong for Brian to post this?Because news programs are about sensationalism.No one knows what happened!So to sensationalize something like this and to think that preaching Armageddon is an abomination when you personally preach something as heinous atrocious monstrous and disgusting as eternal hellfire is hypocritical and preposterous.I like Brian and that is why it upsets me all the more to see intelligent nice people like him exploiting something like this when they have a massive erroneous doctrine like hellfire they use like a weapon against anyone they wish up their theological sleeve.I know one argument traditionalists will use is that their children are assured of a heavenly calling.Well I for one would find no comfort in that whatsoever if my little friends at school who weren't as "Christian" as I would never be fanned in the flames of hell.Talk about traumatic!And what about family who perhaps think Jesus is God's son as opposed to God or don't believe at all?I have to live with their screams of terror for an infinity in a supposedly blissful kingdom?PLEASE!If I believed in hell,I would live and breathe traumatized!And it is truly a perturbing thing to be child trying with all your little heart and soul to understand how love and mercy can be reconciled with hellfire and how God's son is God!I knew God could not be balanced or truthful at all if these lies were true!John 3:16 alone disproves both.Believe it or not,I am not advocating the excessive WT depictions of Armageddon etc. but trust me..logically,heartfeltly,it is the lesser of two evils.To say the least!Children have VIVID imaginations and sensitive hearts and it doesn't take pictures for them to "see" what you tell them to believe!Poor kids.How very big of you Brian to lambast people who preach destruction when you preach the boldfaced lie of eternal life in flames for the majority of mankind!The same ol Satanic one ever REALLY dies.Back to the Garden of Eden for some education.

Genesis 3:19:For dust you are and to dust you will return.

Sounds kinda like :

Matthew 3:12 His winnowing shovel is in his hand, and he will completely clean up his threshing floor, and will gather his wheat into the storehouse, but the chaff he will BURN UP with fire that cannot be put out.(what happens in fire Brian?Did anyone stay alive in gehenna?)

I'm thinkin' in John 3:16 ,when it says the wicked shall perish,that it pretty much means what it says!

To anyone who lives to criticize the WT for their faults(and yes they have them I know!)Time to examine yourself first.

Matthew 7:3 Why, then, do you look at the straw in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the rafter in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Allow me to extract the straw from your eye’; when, look! a rafter is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First extract the rafter from your own eye, and then you will see clearly how to extract the straw from your brother’s eye.

If the WT is a cult what would you call the broad and spacious road that preaches "Christianity's" two biggest most detrimental lies..the trinity and hell?You'd probably call it "truth" if you're fond of tradition and philosophy of men.But I would venture to say you're fooling yourself.God said "This is my son"..what about THAT is hard to understand?God also said "The wicked shall perish"..That is precise language as well..

I sincerely hope Brian takes no offense but instead continues to prayerfully investigate his core beliefs as I think he is a smart man who Jah could use to grand effect with the right humble spirit,willingness to reform..AGAIN,and to accept blatant truth when it is shown him straight from the pages of scripture.I am not talking about symbolic texts being taken literally and elaborate inferences about God's son being anything but his father's servant and agent and son in some philosophical 4th century manmade formula either.God how I pray truth will reign and become clearer to the sincere hearted as time draws closer for the establishment of His perfect kingdom restored to this earth.

Here's the reality,Brian.You are judging people who preach annihilation when you preach hellfire!The hypocrisy and absurdity there is striking!Yes the pictures might disturb children..(please note JW children are taught positive things from scripture more than armageddon)..But to confidently articulate(yes I've heard you speak about your beliefs) a fiery fairy tale of the worst kind of sadistic evil man or child could EVER imagine?UNFORGIVABLE.Here's hoping you and every other stubborn Christian will delve deeply into logic and exegesis and pick apart every text they think proves hellfire and "make sure of all things",holding fast to what is good and true!

You can start by googling "everlasting torment examined" by Steve Scianni.And that's just the beginning of exegesis available that actually remains within the bounds of logic,recognizing the symbolism and hyperbole in Revelation,understanding what gehenna entails,refusing to look at words like "destroyed,perish,ashes" as anything but what they would reasonably say.etc.Why?Because you're preaching the same lie Satan did and traumatizing children and adults alike.Those who don't just look for any way out that they avoid believing in a sadist God.You don't know his personality and that confounds me!The bible is clear.The worst that ever happened to sinners?Agony leading to death.That satisfies God's wrath against sin.To get rid of it.His holiness is magnified in "making all things new" without the preservation of the most heinous evil man could ever imagine into all of eternity.That would hamper the kingdom peace,no?


  1. I enjoyed your youtube vids...any reason why you closed your channel?


  2. Kellie,

    Here's were I think you are going wrong. I am not criticizing them for preaching Judgment. What I am criticizing is showing these graphic images and incessantly talking about impending destruction to young children ill equipped to process it. I will, and have criticized Christians who do the same, however my experience is that it is far less prevalent as most have children services.

    "putawaythatmeat" (i think that's it) is the title of your blog.... do not children need milk and not meat? That is the question the video is meant to raise in the minds of the viewers. Note I never say that this "did" happen, I said what "can" happen. How about we not take that risk.

    I have allot more that I could say but I will leave it at that.

  3. Also consider the fact that The Watchtower's premillenial eschatology might just be wrong, in which case the pictures would be depicting the events surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. If this is the case, then the only thing to fear would be the due punishment for their crimes against God.

    Perhaps if the Watchtower wasn't obsessed with the end times, people wouldn't have the fear that they do.

  4. jw4life,Don't be concerned!I erased that account impulsively and wish i hadn't!Didn't you erase one too ?;)

    Brian,maybe you missed the point?The bible says to first extract the rafter.Yours is looming large ..unless you are a rare gem of a traditionalist indeed,you have preached hell.You have told your children about hell.It is the human mind's goal to move toward pleasure and away from pain indeed and so children may do everything they can to push it out of thier mind.But children are also imaginitive and sensitive.You aren't doing ANYONE any favors preaching a bold faced lie.I would have no complaint (except that you didn't inform anyone these boys may have been murdered and no one actually knows what happened to them!) if you didn't preach hell.

    Btw,putawaythatmeat has nothing to do with "meat of the word"..I am vegan(for the most part),hence the name.That was impulsive as well and I wish I hadn't used the name.I've been chastised for it.

    Mike,nothing you just said takes away the complaint I'm TRYING to make against the constant "hell" threats from ill informed traditionalists.I agree that the focus on Armageddon(and I have not studied what you are it in that Last Days book you blogged about?) is excessive with the WT.But I also remember as a child having heartwarming feelings when being told about Paradise on Earth and actually finding it in the bible!There is nothing more comforting.Nothing.Also comforting?Finding out hell is a lie.Now that's the biggest sigh of relief you will ever hear from a person who has been lied to and,yes,traumatized by it!

    Bottom line:Eternal life in a fire is more traumatic(times trillions) than being killed.Even if it is friends or family or ANYONE ELSE suffering such sadistic nonsense forever.Since it is a lie,I can't even imagine Jah's feelings about the propagation and threat of it.What exactly is it about the threat of hell that is easy for children to process?

  5. Since Jehovah's Witnesses are convinced from scripture that we are, indeed, living in the last days, then we are correct in drawing people's attention to that fact. People need to be warned! What message do you think that Noah was focused on and actively preaching for 40-60 years - one of peace and tranquility? No! one of impending destruction. Since we are living in parallel times as Noah, the warning MUST be issued.

    That being said, I certainly do not see that Armageddon is overly emphasized and pictures of it are VERY rare. The ones in the video were taken from publications that are spread over many years. Children certainly are not "bombarded" with these images/ideas in the publications or at the meetings. They are, in fact, given postive instruction. The vast majority of what is in the publications is focused on the Kingdom and how it will solve all of mankind's woes, on developing a Christ-like personality, on the preaching work, and on drawing close to Jehovah. These lessons, and many other positive ones, are even in books designed for children/adolescents - such as "My Book of Bible Stories", "Learn from the Great Teacher", and "Questions Young People Ask; Answers That Work" Vol I & II. All of the children I know are healthy, happy ones. What happened in the video is a tragedy but is certainly not unique to Jehovah's Witnesses.

  6. dcr..I appreciate all you said and you said it articulately and logically.No organization can be perfect so I don't really defend it anymore as if it were.Jah and Jesus.They're perfect.I for one won't deny that children may be disturbed by a lot of Armageddon preaching and parents telling them their friends who aren't JW's will have their corpses cleaned up by JW's.It is disturbing and unfortunately,it can be excessive.I'm not denying most of what you said..but I think there are more flaws in the org than maybe you're willing to acknowledge.If I'm wrong,forgive me.I say it out of love and perceive a few injustices within the organization,personally.And people are afraid to speak up,for obvious reasons.That alone is an injustice.

  7. Kellie, I certainly realize that the earthly part of Jehovah's organization is filled with imperfect people - I am, of course, a prime example! ;-)

    Sadly, injustices can and have occurred. But I don't see it at an organizational level - only on an individual level (sometimes at the congregational level but I count that as the same as the individual level). My experience has taught me that far and away the vast majority of the problems people have, including the elders, is due to their failure to heed much repeated counsel in the publications, at the meetings and at the assemblies.

    Also, some (certainly not all) of the "injustices" people have experienced are only perceived, not real - it is their viewpoint that needs adjusting. Hey, some of Jesus' own disciples left off from following him because, according to them, "he was speaking shocking things."

    Even Jehovah could be criticized, if one had the wrong attitude/viewpoint. Example: Why did he allow Satan to have access to heaven for thousands of years after the rebellion in Eden? Look at the havoc Satan caused as a result - misleading the angels to become demons, spawning the Nethillim necessitating the Flood, disputing with Michael about Moses' body, bringing about the trials of Job, trying to destroy the Kingdom at its birth, just to name a few. From a fleshly standpoint, this certainly seems like a legitimate criticism. Having the proper spiritual viewpoint however, we realize that, even though we do not fully understand why he allowed Satan access to heaven, we trust his judgement and handling of the situation. This leads to my final point.

    1 John 4:18 states "There is no fear in love, but perfect love throws fear outside." Love will prevent us from having fear with perceived problems within the organization. Why? If we truely believe in our hearts that Jehovah is using this organization, then love for Jehovah will move us to wait patiently on him (and with long-suffering if need be) to resolve the issue. It may be that it is our perception that needs adjusting and not "the organization's". If we realize that the Faithful Slave has our best interests and well-being at heart, then love for our brothers will also help us to be patient (Rom. 12:10; 1 Thess 5:12, 13; Php 2:29). Think of all of the wonderful truths that we learned through the Slave. Remember, Jesus has enough trust in the Slave class to have appointed them over all his earthly belongings. If they make any mistakes, they will answer to him and any hardships caused can and will be undone by Jesus/Jehovah (Acts 20:28; Heb. 13:17).

    I truely believe that Jehovah is using this organization. Hence, I have no problem defending it "blemishes" and all (obvious right :-) ).

  8. dcr2414.... very well said!

    reality check: anybody who believes Jehovah is NOT using an imperfect organization in the last days to accomplish his will, is only fooling himself. YES, a hard pill to swollow indeed. All you need to do is understand the temple arrangement from ancient Israel, and the temple vision the prophet Ezekiel had. They prefigured a spirtual TRUTH that not many can grasp and understand.

    BTW - I have a 4 and 3 year old boys. WE DO NOT "bambard" our children with armageddon.... that is just a BIG FAT LIE!!!! We bambard our children with beautifull scenes of paradise. My boys certainly understand that Jah will send his Son to do away with bad and sad things, but that is NOT the thrust of what we teach our children. THAT is the TRUTH... coming from a JW MOTHER.

  9. Maribel,I certainly didn't mean to offend.I was only trying to point out the delicacy of children when confronted with Armageddon or hell.I wasn't making some sweeping statement about JW parenting ..I pointed out that they are exposed more to comforting things.Sounds like you're doing an awesome job as a mother.You have a beautiful family for sure!

    dcr..I appreciate your sentiments and have been where you are wholeheartedly.So I understand the way you think and feel.But I can't lie and say I am not having issues right now.I won't go into detail.This isn't the place.I appreciate your intellect and passion for your beliefs.

    Is the "independent thinking" the WT discourages really so treacherously evil?How else will we know if something is just and true unless we step outside the box and actually evaluate everything independently,prayerfully?How else would a Mormon or an orthodox Christian or anyone else know something may be wrong with their belief system without "independent thinking?"

  10. Kellie... no offense taken. My comment was not really directed towards you. I LOVE YOU!

    As far as your position towards the org., not really my business, that's between you and Jesus. He's the one that asked the question: "who really is the FDS?"

    It's a question we all need to answer back to him.

    I personally feel I can answer him with certainty. But my answer can be different from the person next to me. But one thing is for sure... there is only ONE true answer.