Is the holy spirit Almighty God?

The holy spirit is poured out onto and inside Christ's and Jehovah's followers.It impregnated Mary and appeared as a dove and a flame.It is repeatedly said to be "of God" (Gen. 1:2)and "of Christ" so obviously it is something they can own or that we can own in whatever measure God allows or permits.(Heb. 2:4)In other words,all these facts would be inconsistent with calling the holy spirit Almighty God.It IS however consistent with claiming that it is an active force,an exercised power,that Jehovah uses to accomplish his every will,from creation to blessing,from helping followers recall scripture to displaying fruits in the lives of Christians.It is what makes God omniscient in that his holy spirit can be anywhere all at once and in whatever measure accomplishing anything because it is controlled by it's possessor Jehovah.For example,if Jehovah wanted to heal someone of something,he could send forth HIS holy spirit and it could be done automatically.Not because the holy spirit IS Jehovah,unless you're willing to believe God takes the form of doves(then we have a dove god on our hands)and enters us(God possession?)..It is never given a personal name,because it isn't a person.IT is personified on occasion with "he" and "speaks" grieves" etc because sometimes in scripture things or aspects etc. are personified (also because it IS "of God",HIS and therefore sometimes rightfully personified in relation TO him)..Here are a few examples of non-people being personified(it's not uncommon):

**Luke 7:35-Yet wisdom is vindicated by all her children."

**Romans 7:8:But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

**Rom 5:14,21-death reigned from Adam to Moses21just as sin ruled by bringing death, so also grace might rule by bringing justification that results in eternal life through Jesus the Messiah, our Lord.

**1 John 5:6-8- water and blood bear witness too

**I Cor. 12:15,16-If the foot shall say, because I am not the hand, I am not of the body.... And if the ear shall say, because I am not of the body .

**Psa. 96:11,12-Let the heaven rejoice, and let the earth be glad. …let the field be joyful . . then shall all the trees of the wood rejoice

**Isa. 55:12-the mountains and hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees shall clap their hands

There are many more examples than that,just making a point.

When angels would speak Jah's messages as his messengers..they didn't enter or possess people..thay appeared before them.They can be SEEN AS ANGELS..When has the holy spirit ever been seen as a person or given a personal name?By trinitarian standards,wisdom,knowledge,trees,etc would all be people because they are sometimes ,even though inanimate, given personification in a poetic way.This isn't to say however that something as extraordinary as Yah's very spirit isn't personal.It is his VERY personal outreach!

So what is the holy spirit exactly?

*Genesis 1:2- Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

*John 14:17-Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

*God anointed [Jesus] with holy spirit and power(Acts 10:38)

**Romans 8: 9-You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

**Romans 8:14-because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God

*John 3:8-The wind blows where it lists, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell whence it comes, and whither it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit<--wind felt not seen

compare to:

*Job 33:4-The Spirit of God has made me, And the breath of the Almighty gives me life

*1 Corinthians 12:3-3:Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is accursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except in the Holy Spirit.

**Luke 11:20-But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come to you.compare to:

*Matthew 12:28-But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come to you

The holy spirit is called the finger of God..Jesus is called the arm of God(figuratively),not that either (Jesus or the spirit)is a literal finger or arm,but this proves to me that Jehovah possesses(owns) them both(Jesus AND the spirit) and uses them to get his will done,or rather works by means of them.The difference is,Jesus has a personal name and an obvious identity as God's most beloved son.(Matthew 3:17)

So when the spirit IS seen is it ever seen as a person?And isn't it therefore a figurative or symbolic vision?Don't you think it is peculiar and precarious to assume it is a person without a name and form(where is he in heaven when Jehovah and Jesus are clearly pictured,repeatedly)?

Why when the apostles talked about Jesus and Jehovah in all those verses is the holy spirit RARELY mentioned in the same texts?(Acts 7:55,56)Wouldn't that be blasphemous and unheard of if the holy spirit is an equal almighty God?Why when Jehovah and Jesus are pictured in heaven(always distinct mind you) is there never a literal person of another equal Supreme being with them in the whole what should be a "trinity" setting??Even in most of the supposed trinity "proof" texts,the holy spirit is conspicuously absent.Where's the holy spirit in this equation?:

**I Timothy 2:5. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Ultimately it is Jehovah ,by means of his holy spirit,speaking through his messengers and servants..what do you think Jesus meant when he said his words were not his own?Remember the dove descending upon him?God spoke THROUGH him BY MEANS of his spirit.(John 12:49)Therefore Jesus possesses it as well,more of it than any other servant of Jehovah!(John 3:34)Hence,as mediator,Jesus dispenses the spirit of God to true Christians and sincere seeekers as is seen fit.(Acts 10:45 )


So whenever you see "he" in relation to the holy spirit,remember that things that are not persons are poetically personified in scripture at times.And the holy spirit,being a force of the Almighty God,owned and operated by him,would be as well.That's when it is time to weigh the evidence and reason with the bible as a whole.Don't assume it is a person because it is personified sporadically..otherwise you are assuming something the whole of the bible fails to support and also recognizing wisdom and trees etc. must be people.(which I'm sure you don't)

***NOW for some points taken from a webpage that inspired this blog..these words are from the site below.(which is NOT affiliated with the Jehovah's Witnesses)

http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d910201.htm

**Note how Paul and the other apostles consistently referred to the authority of the ones they represented in the opening salutation to their epistles. Look at what they state. "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3; II Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:3; Eph. 1:2; Phil. 1:2; Col. 1:2; 1 Thes. 1:1; II Thes. 1:2; 1 Tim. 1:2; II Tim. 1:2; Titus 1:4; II Pet. 1:2).

**Note that there is no mention of the Holy Spirit whatever in the introductions to these epistles. Other apostles show the same thing. James said he was "a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ" (James 1:1) -- no mention of the Holy Spirit.
In I Corinthians 3:23 Christians are said to belong to Christ as he belongs to God — but nothing about anyone belonging to the Holy Spirit as though he were an equal personality too.

** In I Corinthians 15:28 Paul said all things would be subdued by Christ, and that Christ would in turn hand over all power to God the Father. But the Holy Spirit as a co-personality is not so much as mentioned in Paul’s account and in the figuring in of this transference of power and authority

**"Whither shall I go from thy Spirit" (Psa.139:7). It is God’s Spirit, not himself, which pervades the totality of the universe. God, as a personality and as an individual is in one place at one time and He is not (of himself as a personality) located everywhere at the same time throughout the universe That the Spirit can be everywhere at once like an electrical power that emanates from God. That is why the Spirit itself cannot be an individual or else it too would not be able to be everywhere at the same time. But if the Spirit is simply the power of God to accomplish his purposes, that Spirit can encompass at all times the totality of the universe.

**On the Day of Pentecost after Christ’s rising from the dead, the Bible says the Spirit came into all the disciples "as a rushing mighty wind" (Acts 2:2). It filled not only each of the persons in the house with spiritual power.If we understand that the Holy Spirit is simply the power of God (like some kind of electrical energy) to accomplish God’s purposes, all can become much more comprehensible and reasonable.

***NOW for a few points from "Insight on the scriptures" vol.2,a JW publication.

**Justin Martyr(2nd century ce) taught that the holy spirit "was an influence or a mode of operation of the deity".Not until the 4th century did it become church dogma.

*"In the name of the holy spirit" implies recognition of that spirit as having its source in God and as exercising its function according to the divine will.

*Further evidence against the idea of personality as regards the holy spirit is the way it is used in association with other impersonal things ,like water and fire (mt. 3:11,mark 1:9)(side note:I am no longer willing to call God's spirit "impersonal" since it is GOD's.Just because it isn't a separate person from him doesn't mean it's impersonal in that God is present with us by means of it!)

*Persons are spoken of as being "filled" with it along with such qualities as wisdom and faith(Acts 6:3,5,11:24)or joy(Acts 13:52).It is inserted in with a number of such qualities at 2 Cor 6:6

*While some texts refer to the spirit as "witnessing","speaking" or "saying" things ,other texts make it clear that it spoke THROUGH other persons having no personal voice of it's own(heb 3:7,10:15-17,ps 95:7,Jer 31:33,34,acts 19:2-6,21:4,28:25)

*Where a human craftsman would use the force of his hands and fingers to produce things,God uses his spirit.Hence that spirit is also spoken of as God's "hand" or "fingers"..(compare Ps. 8:3,19:1,Matthew 12:28 and Luke 11:20)

*Moses found his load of responsibility heavy so God "took away some of the spirit that was upon Moses and placed it upon 70 older men"so that they might help in carrying the load." (Numbers 1:11-17,24-30)

*It can be "poured out" fitting people for spiritual works like teaching,guiding,shepherding ,and counseling.It's fruitage is love,joy,peace,long suffering,kindness,mildness,goodness,self control and faith.(Gal 5:24-26,6:1,Acts 6:1-7,Ez 36:26,27)

And to summarize,the Insight book also points out that it is a free gift to sincere seekers,the right heart being a key factor.To disregard its leanings could be disastrous.It IS what God uses to move and direct Christians so to ignore it would essentially be to reject God.So when it is personified or when it "speaks" ect. it is obviously IN RELATION to its owner,Jehovah,THE Almighty.

Paradise on earth and trinity thoughts

Weren't Adam and Eve glorious and holy before they sinned?Don't you think Jehovah was happy with the earth and man be4 sin?Why would he dismiss the idea of Paradise when he never dismisses any of his purposes?Why would he put "forever" and "peace on earth" in the hearts of men if it wasn't going to occur?Why WOULDN'T he fulfill his original purpose?Don't you think the bible specifically lays out that plan and the means of accomplishing it in scripture?(gen 3:15)What does the Lord's prayer mean when it says "let your kingdom come and your will be done on earth as it is in heaven?" and on the sermon on the mount when he says"blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth"..?And would it be reasonable to conclude that humans will all die and go to heaven when Jehovah never intended that to begin with,when we were composed of "earthly things"?..WHICH isn't bad pre-sin!If we take our minds out of the gutter and realize the perfection glory and peace that the earth and man possessed pre Adamic sin then we should be absolutely overwhelmed imagining the beauty of what must've been and what WILL BE AGAIN!(eph 3:20)I haven't pulled it out of nowhere..it is laid out like a divine puzzle in the word of God!Yes,you can live forever in a Paradise on earth..I said paradise!Not the chaos and tragedy we all have come to know.Conditions will be magnificent..by the power of God and his king!(1 chron 29:20,rev 5:13,John 13:31,32,Isaiah 9:7)

At rev 21:3,Jehovah's Witnesses say mankind on earth is referenced here.Christians commonly say that isn't possible because the "tabernacle " is in heaven.I will now refer you to Leviticus 26:11,12,where ,again,Jehovah resides with his ppl figuratively.There won't even be a need for a mediator once paradise is restored and the kingdom has completely taken over!(1 cor 15:27,28)Mediators were only needed because of mankind's fall from grace.That isn't to say though that appointees won't still be used and on earth in behalf of keeping things theocratically organized.(Ps 45:16,1 Cor 14:33)


Did Adam and Eve have it bad before they sinned?I think that is one reason they sinned..they had it so well,they forgot how bad they needed God for a second.And look what happens when man does that!Yikes!

Hebrews 4:15,:we do not have a high priest incapable of sympathizing with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in every way just as we are, yet without sin” (NET). 16:Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.


IMO,if you are saying life in a paradise earth in peace and perfection isn't good enough for you then you are saying Jehovah's purpose for you isn't good enough.Remember we're talkin PRE-sin heah!And I find it interesting that people pray for peace on earth and God's will on earth and feel the beauty in their hearts of the majesty of this planet(minus the chaos from the fall mind you) yet insist that heaven is the only place to live!

And now,for another defense in regards to YEP you guessed it..the trinity!THIS time it's about revelation and how it DOESN'T prove Jesus is Jehovah.
About Rev 1:8:"I am the Alpha and the Omega," declares the Lord God, "the one who is, who was, and who is coming, the Almighty."

Rev 1:1= Jesus is GIVEN the revelation FROM GOD.So according to trinitarians Jehovah gives Jehovah a revelation.Shouldn't Jehovah the Son have already had the revelation?Wonder why Jesus has to constantly be given everything?Could it be because he relies on HIS GOD for everything and is NOT HIS OWN GOD?(Acts 10:38)They are clearly BOTH coming since Jehovah is Jesus's source of power!(Acts 2:22)You better believe Jehovah is coming..he has never not been there for his most beloved son(to vindicate his sovereignty THROUGH Jesus )!(John 3:34)Jah uses Jesus and Jesus happily complies!Again,please,do reveal to us who know Jesus has a God why he had to be given the revelation?Is your answer because the son needs to be given everything from the father?(dan 7:14)and if it is,what about life?(John 5:26)

Jehovah is here figuratively every time Jesus is..since he freely and kindly gives his holy spirit to his Christ everytime Christ does or says anything as Jehovah's representative.(John 10:37,38,John 5:19)For example,when Joshua made the sun and moon motionless,who do you think REALLY did?When Jesus healed and raised etc,since he did nothing of his own initiative,what was REALLY going on?(Isaiah 42:1)
Is Revelation 1:8 about Jehovah?absolutely!And good luck proving otherwise in light of rev 1:1,4,5!

NOW yes Jesus is called the first and the last in a couple scriptures.Why?One need only to look at context for answers.He was the first to be raised to immortality directly by Jehovah and the last because THROUGH Christ everyone else will be raised,in him.Look at context and it should be clear that the context is the death and resurrection of Jesus.Also,Christ was the first new creation by Jehovah God and the last in that all the rest of it is held together in his glorified and immortal body.First and last has to do with being the firstfruits of new creatures and gaining a life without end.



Ponder for a few the earth and how it is Jehovah's footstool and his delight after seeing his creation.Ponder for a few the "Son of Man" being brought to the "Ancient of Days" and reconcile all that with your belief that all believers will live in heaven and that Jesus is God.(Daniel 7:9-13,Genesis 1:31)

Why preach the kingdom?

Blog disclaimer:I am no longer a Jehovah's Witness.I disassociated.But much of this reasoning is still relevant and I still think it is important to proclaim the good news of God's kingdom in any way we can anywhere we can.Out of faith and love though instead of via organizational policy,seeking "acceptable" numbers on time slips.Much like their duplicity in many other areas,JW's will tell you not to compare your time slips and meeting attendance etc to others but yet if you don't go out in service enough nor attend every meeting,you are thought of as spiritually weak and possibly a bad association in many cases.Anyway,woe is us if we do not declare the good news out of faith and love however and I do admire the door to door work the JW's do.However,I think because they have many false teachings they're spreading,I recommend when they show up at your door to stress freedom in Christ as our mediator and savior alone.And that when an organization boasts for itself such titles,we have a real problem in the eyes of God who gave them to his Son alone.

Any way,here's the old blog:


Is an idle faith an acceptable faith?What does the love of God mean?What does being obedient entail?To examine all scriptures and mold our lives accordingly..or to take a few and assume we're ok because Christ died for us?Is neglecting to observe Christ's footsteps closely ok for a christian(1 Peter 2:21,matt 10:38)?Again,what did Christ do?Did he constantly supplicate,rely on Jehovah for power and blessing,and minister to others the good news and the proclamaton of his father's name and purpose and kingdom?(john 17:26)Or did he pay mouth service while he simply waited for salvation and rested ?BUT is that faith like Christ's faith if it is confined to the heart and mind with no EXERCISING of it involved?In no way,shape or form can we "earn" salvation,but faith implies more than a heart condition..unless the heart condition moves us to service obedience and conformity to the standards of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.(Is 64:8,1 John 5:3)I'm sure many in Noah's and Lot's days believed in God and thought they loved him..where did they go wrong?

*Proverbs 24:12-shall not he render to every man according to his works?

*James 1:22-But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.

*James 2:24,26-You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone..For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

*Hebrews 10:26-If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left

*Matthew 4:4-Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

*Acts 1:8-you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."

*John 14:12-Truly, I tell all of you with certainty, the one who believes in me will also do what I am doing. He will do even greater things than these

*Psalm 118:17-shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the LORD.

*Matthew 24:14-This Good News about the kingdom will be spread throughout the world as a testimony to all nations. Then the end will come

*Romans 10:13..Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.14.."How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?15..How can people tell the Good News if no one sends them? As Scripture says, "How beautiful are the feet of the messengers who announce the Good News."

*1 Corinthians 15:58-Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord.

*Acts 20:20-I never shrank from telling you anything that would help you nor from teaching you publicly and from house to house(see also Luke 10:1-6)

*2 Timothy 4:5-Do the work of an evangelist. Devote yourself completely to your ministry

*Matthew 5:16-In the same way, let your light shine before people in such a way that they will see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven

*Psalm 68:11-The women who announce the good news are a large army.

*2 Corinthians 5:20-we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

*2 Timothy 2:4-No man that wars entangles himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who has chosen him to be a soldier

*Acts 28:30,31-preaching the kingdom of God and teaching concerning the Lord Jesus Christ with all openness, unhindered

*1 Timothy 4:16-Pay close attention to your life and your teaching. Persevere in these things, because if you do so, you will save both yourself and those who listen to you.

*Colossians 3:23-And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men

*Titus 2:14-Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous for good works

*Ephesians 6:15-and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE

*Ezekial 33:7 "Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me. 8 When I say to the wicked, 'O wicked man, you will surely die,' and you do not speak out to dissuade him from his ways, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 9 But if you do warn the wicked man to turn from his ways and he does not do so, he will die for his sin, but you will have saved yourself.

*Isaiah 6:8-Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
9And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
11Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,

Not only is it of utmost importance to declare the only way for peace is through God's kingdom(dan 2:44) but to do so in all sincerity and love,hoping for those rightly disposed(acts 13:48) to become reconciled to their creator and Father and his King and son.It's a serious and life giving invitation and message(Revelation 14:6,7) that anyone can accept who is willing to humble themselves under the mighty hand of God and succumb to His benevolent and loving authority.Even though the road is narrow(matthew 7:14),as a loving father,he DESIRES all to attain to repentance(2 peter 3:9) and accept his provisions(rev 22:17).His standards are high because he is holy( 1 Peter 1:16) but with his spirit that he provides obedient lovers of truth,all things are possible.Praise Jah!


The road is narrow,so what can we conclude from that?(matt 7:21-23)Not only do we have the Word of God but we have resources everywhere now from the library to googling to our ability to reason(all along WITH the bible) to "make sure of all things"..Allow the word to mold you even when others accept tradition as truth.(mark 7:13,Gal 1:14,2 tim 4:3,2 thes 2:11,12)That way your teachings to others will be based in the good and acceptable truth and will of God.

Plato or God?

http://www.british-israel.ca/immortalsoul.htm


Check out the site for a simple and thorough explanation of how man has adopted the philosophy of other men instead of the truth in the word into their doctrines.There are many scriptures and facts given upon which to ponder and be honest with yourself.I'll also post URL's of a couple of youtubes where Plato's definition of death differs from God's when examined under the microscope of God's perfect word.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3tEyIWgb-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jwn9FcbRl7s


I urge everyone to go to the website and be honest with yourself!I know it is hard to accept that long held deeply steeped traditions conflict with truth and reality but God is not to be contradicted ..We MUST worship him in truth!Otherwise,we are on the "Father of the lie's" side.Who wants to be there?God is our potter our creator our master.Let him mold your thoughts and ideas.Let HIM teach you and help you to unadopt philosophical pagan conformity and imprisonment.The truth will set you free.At least please CONSIDER the scriptures given on the website above and all the ones on my "OH HELL!!" blog.:)Because scriptures should be the authority.For instance if the hellfire doctrine seems out of line with God's absolute mercy,justice and love,then it probably is!Sheol and hades and the pit all mean grave.Gehenna was a location Jesus was using to symbolize destruction and ostracizing from God.It was a literal location where everything was burned up and where lepers were sent ..that is what the people at that time understood when Jesus was talking about "hell" because these are all the words translated as "hell".(gehenna..google it.)Please watch the following youtube for sensible truth made by someone I do not know..Thanks.:)

Trinitarian standards

This is a blog I've compiled to show the fallacy of trinitarian reasoning.At least that is what I hope it does.When one reads certain scriptures through a trinitarian biased lens,one sees something in scripture that is not intended imo.Jehovah is one Jehovah,not triune Jehovah.First I point out trinitarian standards for making Christ God then I explain how it means others have to be God too.

***Isaiah 42:8
God shares his glory with no one so since Christ has the glory of God he must be God

John 17:22:And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one

Not only does Christ get glory from God but the disciples do as well so by trinitarian standards,the disciples could each be called Almighty God.

In context,Jehovah is talking about not sharing glory with false gods and idols.But he gives glory to true followers and plenty glory to Jesus,his most important exalted son.

***Hosea 13:4:No one is savior but God therefore Jesus must be God.

Isaiah 43:11"I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me(NASB)
....
1 Samuel 23:5:David was the saviour of the people of Keilah.(bile in basic English)

Judges 3:9:Then the people of Israel cried out to the LORD for help. The LORD sent a savior to rescue them. It was Othniel, son of Caleb's younger brother Kenaz.15The LORD sent a savior to rescue them. It was Ehud, a left-handed man from the tribe of Benjamin.(God's world translation)

Isaiah 19:20:he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them

Jude 25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus the Messiah(explains how they are both savior)

By trinitarian standards,anyone Jehovah sent forth to save or rescue his people could be called almighty God.
I can only urge you to look at the number of people called "savior" and what they all have in common is that Jehovah sent them to save.Who sent Christ?(John 3:16)

Obviously when Jehovah sends someone to save us they are savior too,but,again,who sent them?Jehovah is saving THROUGH them.Of course,the GREATEST of those he has sent has been Jesus himself "the greater Moses,the greater Solomon "etc.

****Jesus is obviously God because only God can perform the miracles Jesus performed and judge people and resurrect the dead etc.

Ok,I agree only God has that power BUT also ANYONE he GIVES that power to,sometimes THROUGH Christ.There's an order here.Some examples of others doing the same kinds of things or being given the authority and spirit to do so.

John 20:23:If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.(Jesus gives disciples permission and authority to forgive sin!)

Acts 9:36-42 Peter resurrected Tabitha!

Acts 20:7-12 Paul raised Eutychus!

Joshua 10:12,13:made sun and moon motionless

Romans 2:16 God through Christ judges(just one of many scriptures explaining how Christ has authority)

By trinitarian standards Peter Paul and the rest of the disciples could each be a coequal Almighty God in a "godhead".

***Christ raised himself from the dead(John 2:19:And in three days I will raise it up)

Galatians 1:1 as well as every OTHER scripture attributes the raising to the father.And I know the trinitarian argument is that all three accomplished this and I agree, but in what sense?

observe the following verses:

Luke 8:48 Jesus says to a woman: "Your faith has made you well." This woman was healed not by herself but because her faith provided the reason and basis.Similarly ,Christ,through obedience love and supplication,provided the moral basis on which Jehovah would raise him.You would have to ignore NUMEROUS texts to believe that Jesus LITERALLY raised himself.Including all those that define death as well as the reasoning in texts like Hebrews 5:7.

John 4:1-3When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John

Now from this text you might assume Jesus baptized but he didn't it was through his disciples that he did.

So by trinitarian standards people can heal themselves and Jesus baptized people in water when he did no such thing.In other words,sometimes,based on logic and biblical context(wider too!) certain texts are clearly figurative.

***Colossians 2:9:For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form..
Therefore ,Jesus HAS TO BE GOD!

ok,Ephesians 1:22:And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church
23Which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all

John 1:16:And of his fullness have all we received, and grace for grace

By trinitarian standards Christ's followers have to be God because Christ is God and all his fullness is in them.
All this means is that God's holy spirit is upon them and within them to whatever measure he allows and sees fit.

***"I and the father are one.If you've seen me you've seen the father."Therefore Jesus must be God!

By trinitarian standards the disciples are each individually Almighty God as well and since they will represent Christ and God and do even greater works then Christ they must be God.If they have all these powers and are one with God then they have to be God too right?(John 17:11,21)

***Jesus is "Immanuel" God with us! So he has to be God!

Have you studied all the names in the bible and what they mean?If not,I hope you will then you will see that with this trinitarian logic,almost anyone could be assumed to be God.Israel,Elisha,Elijah,Daniel,Michael,Ezekial,Joel(etc.) all contain within them "el",meaning God.If we were to take many bible names and look at their meaning to determine whether or not those ones were God with the same standards trinitarians do with Immanuel,then God's substance would be quite expansive,with a number or "persons."Obviously ,Jesus represented God and therefore was "God with us" in that respect just like Moses was and just like angels were,except on a grander scale because he is far greater than anyone besides his own God and my God,Jehovah.

***Jesus was worshipped therefore he has to be God!


Matthew 4:10 "You must Worship Yahweh your God and you must serve him only."

1 Chronicles 29:20: And David said to all the assembly, Now bless Yahweh your God. And all the assembly blessed Jehovah, the God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshiped Yahweh, and the king." (see my blog about John 20:28 too)

So according to trinitarian standards,kings and angels could be Jehovah as well..The same word for worship used for Christ is also used for kings and Christians(etc.)

Revelation 3:9:Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

God makes the syngogue of Satan worship Christians just like he makes everyone worship Jesus.Why?To his glory because he's love.

***Jesus was the image and form of God therefore he must be God.

Man was created in God's image.Is man God?Have you ever seen anything or anyone in the form of another and existing as the person they are in the form of?(bad English)In other words,Jesus can't be God by this very logic.


I'm not insisting that trinitarians could ever believe all these other people are Jehovah,I'm simply pointing out that by the standards they themselves employ with Jesus,others could as well from a nontrinitarian standpoint.There are many more I wanted to point out but I'll save it for a rainy day.

God is love..Jesus most assuredly demonstrated that love and made God's love and purpose become fulfilled by dying for us!Jesus is most certainly in union with Yahweh and Yahweh uses his holy spirit to assure his every will gets done.Simple as that.

Jesus does nothing of his own initiative,only looks to do his father's will,and lives to please and glorify his father.Everything from authority to power to life blessing and kingship has been given him FROM his father.He didn't even have a name greater than the angels until he inherited one through obedience and overcoming and saving us.He has been used by Jehovah BECAUSE of their mutual love for one another to be his word,his mouthpiece,his messenger,the mediator,our savior.Any words or phrases that can be used of both of them are because of the following:

1 Corinthians 8:6 (New International Version)
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

2 Corinthians 1:20:for as many as are promises of God, in him are the Yes, and in him the Amen, for glory to God through us

When God sends messengers,appoints kings,sends angels..they are called God sometimes.Their words are his,their actions are by means of his spirit and those listening to them are listening to God and those" proskuneoing" them are glorifying God,the ONE who sent them.

Just as God's agents and messengers have always done the things they do by means of God and hence phrases and titles can sometimes be interchanged between them and God,such is also with his greatest messenger of all,Jesus!

Jesus is my savior.King of God's kingdom,Second most high over all the universe.Mediator between God and man.I follow his footsteps closely and live to do what he did..proclaim his father's name and herald the kingdom message.He is the way to God,always proclaims the truth as God's greatest mouthpiece and by his death,I can have life.He is the wisdom of God(the smartest creation by God) the word of God(proclaiming God's truths and fulfilling his prophecies) and will herald in a new heavens and a new earth by the power of God.His kingdom will last an eternity and will never be brought to ruin.There will be no more wickedness death or chaos under his reign.Everything is in subjection to him except for His God.His God is my God.And through him,I reach my God.He LIVES to do his father's will and loves his father more than we can imagine and relies on him for everything.He has inherited a name greater then the angels and has been exalted due to perfect obedience which came from supplication and love.That is who Jesus is.

Paradise..IT SHALL BE

In the beginning God created this, that, and the other and one of those things was the earth.Then he created man and woman to live on the earth forever in peace and perfection,having in subjection to them everything else on the earth.

**Psalm 37:9:For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth(KJV)

**Psalm 37:11:But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.(KJV)

**Psalm 37:29:The upright will have the earth for their heritage, and will go on living there for ever.(Bible in basic english)

**Psalm 78:69:And He built His sanctuary like the heights, Like the earth which He has founded forever.(NASB)

**Psalm 85:11:Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.(KJV)

**Psalm 104:5:Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever(KJV)

**Psalm 115:16:The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.(KJV)

**Psalm 145:21:My mouth shall speak the praise of the LORD: and let all flesh bless his holy name for ever and ever.(KJV)(FLESH..FOREVER)

**Proverbs 2:21:For the upright do inhabit the earth, And the perfect are left in it & verse 22:And the wicked from the earth are cut off, And treacherous dealers plucked out of it!(Young's literal translation)

**Micah 4:3:they will hammer their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning hooks; Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they train for war.& verse 4:Each of them will sit under his vine And under his fig tree, With no one to make them afraid, For the mouth of the LORD of hosts has spoken.(NASB)

**Ecclesiastes 1:4:A generation goes and a generation comes, But the earth remains forever.(NASB)

**Genesis 1:28:God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth."(NASB)

**Genesis 1:31:And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. (NIV)(only the wickedness does he detest)

**Genesis 7:23:Thus He blotted out every living thing that was upon the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky, and they were blotted out from the earth; and only Noah was left, together with those that were with him in the ark.(NASB)(Our days are compared to the days of Noah)

**Isaiah 11: 6-9
The wolf shall live with the lamb,the leopard shall lie down with the kid,the calf and the lion and the fatling together, and a little child shall lead them.The cow and the bear shall graze,their young shall lie down together;and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.The nursing child shall play over the hole of the asp,and the weaned child shall put its hand on the adders den.
They will not hurt or destroy on all my holy mountain;for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

**Isaiah 65:25:"The wolf and the lamb will graze together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox; and dust will be the serpent's food. They will do no evil or harm in all My holy mountain," says the LORD.(NASB)

**Isaiah 45:18:For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else(KJV)

**Isaiah 46:10:Making clear from the first what is to come, and from past times the things which have not so far come about; saying, My purpose is fixed, and I will do all my pleasure;(bible in basic english)(What was his purpose for Adam and Eve?Was it to die and go to heaven?Or to live here forever?)

**Isaiah 55:11:So my word that goes forth form my mouth will prove to be.It will not return to me without results,but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted.(NWT)(Since the eternal paradise hasn't been fulfilled YET,it WILL BE SOON :)

**Isaiah 65:17:For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. (KJV)

**Daniel 7:14:"And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed.(NASB)

**Psalms 45:16:In place of your fathers will be your sons; You shall make them princes in all the earth.(NASB)

**Matthew 5:5:Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.(ESV)

**Matthew 6:10:your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.(NIV)

**Luke 23:43:Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."(NIV)

**1 Corinthians 15:48:As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.(KJV)(both have glory..Jehovah and Jesus delight in righteous man..no need to kill all men ..but let the righteous possess the earth as was originally intended)

**Ephesians 1:10:for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times,namely,to gather all things together again in the Christ,the things in the heavens and the things on the earth.Yes,in him.(NWT)

**Colossians 1:20:And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.(KJV)

**Hebrews 2:5:For he has not subjected to angels the habitable world which is to come, of which we speak;(Darby bible)(SO angels won't be living here..men will.)

**2 Peter 3:13:But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.(NASB)

**Psalm 145:16:You open your hand, and satisfy the desire of every living thing.(AKJV)

**Ephesians 3:20:Now to Him who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think(NASB)

**Revelation 5:10:And hast formed them into a Kingdom to be priests to our God, And they reign over the earth(Weymouth New Testament)("on" the earth in most translations)

**Revelation 5:13:And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.(KJV)

**Revelation 21:1:Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, because the first heaven and the first earth had disappeared, and the sea was gone.(ISV)(This is symbolic..the "new" will be that the earth will be cleansed as if anew wherein dwells only righteousness and the new heavens will be that now God's kingdom in the hands of his Christ will be firmly established as opposed to worldly governments(Daniel 2:44) (see also Ephesians 6:12 where governments are "heavens"..Also the sea symbolizes rebellious wicked mankind according to Isaiah)

**Isaiah 66:1:Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

**Revelation 11:18:The nations were angry, but the time for your wrath has come. It is time for the dead to be judged- to reward your servants, the prophets, the saints, and all who fear your name, both unimportant and important, and to destroy those who destroy the earth."(ISV)(no need to destroy the earth when He can just get rid of the wickedness on it and restore it,kinda like having a dirty mansion overrun with rats,would you burn the whole mansion or clean it up?)

**Psalm 72:7:In his days may the righteous flourish, And abundance of peace till the moon is no more.& verse 8:May he also rule from sea to sea And from the River to the ends of the earth(NASV)

**Psalm 46:8:Come, behold the works of the LORD, what desolations he hath made in the earth.9He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire.10Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.(KJV)

**Psalm 72:16:May there be abundance of grain in the earth on top of the mountains; Its fruit will wave like the cedars of Lebanon; And may those from the city flourish like vegetation of the earth.(NASB)

**Isaiah 33:24:And the inhabitant shall not say, I am sick: the people that dwell therein shall be forgiven their iniquity.(KJV)

**Isaiah 35:5 Then will the eyes of the blind be opened and the ears of the deaf unstopped 6 Then will the lame leap like a deer, and the mute tongue shout for joy. Water will gush forth in the wilderness and streams in the desert.(NIV)


**Genesis 2:9:And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.(KJV)

compare with:

**Revelation 22:1And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.2:In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations(KJV)(FINALLY God's purpose for man fulfilled..from the first book to the last,at last his kingdom come,the heavenly government where blessings will flow from the heavens to the earth and we can only imagine the gifts to come!)


**Revelation 21:3-4 (New International Version - UK)
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.
4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.

He put it in the hearts of man to desire peace here,didn't He?Would he do that if he couldn't give us peace here?Just imagine clean oceans fresh air tigers and bears etc ..awesome(and no more oh my!lol)

Jehovah,which means "he causes to become" will have caused his every desire and purpose to be fulfilled by means of Christ Jesus !Praise them both!

Keep in mind every time LORD is in all capitals ,it means Jehovah,or Yahweh.We must recognize Christ as King and Jehovah as the one who is the Most High and the source of all life and glory!Praise them both and be thankful for the coming Kingdom,a rule from the heavens over the earth,the only hope for mankind.It is impossible to fathom all the blessings he has in store!I mainly just pasted scripture,so feel free to email me with any questions or add me to messenger and God bless!

** Ecclesiastes 3:11:It is beautiful how God has done everything at the right time. He has put a sense of eternity in people's minds. Yet, mortals still can't grasp what God is doing from the beginning to the end [of time].(God's world translation)

So take heart,be encouraged,and pray for that kingdom to come soon!Tribulation now is nothing,utterly bearable,considering the glory to come and the infinite nature of it!God is good.

Oh hell!!

**1 John 4:16 :God is love
**Ezekial 18:4 :Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
**Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death
**Ezekial 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.(hmm..aka NO LONGER ALIVE in any capacity)
**Psalm 30:5 For His anger is but for a moment, His favor is for a lifetime; Weeping may last for the night, But a shout of joy comes in the morning( a moment of anger=a lifetime of burning alive..don't think so!)
**Psalm 146:4 His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.(spirit refers to the life force God can give to those he resurrects.In the meantime,we are simply dead)
**2 Thessalonians 1:9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power(what does destruction mean?What does everlasting mean?)
**Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.( a destroyed soul!)
**John 3:16 God loved world so much he sent his son so we may not PERISH-->what does perish mean?
**Genesis 3:19-return to dust
**Ecclesiastes 3:20 made from dust,return there again.
**Revelation 21:8 their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death(1st death=there can be a resurrection.Second death,I'm guessing not so much.)
**Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten.
**James 1:15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.(there's that word death again)
**Jeremiah 32:35 what an abominable doctrine..nothing like this would even enter God's mind,much less his amazing heart!
**Psalm 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

Would you burn your child , let's say, with a cigarette for even a second (on the arm say) if they angered you? And you think Almighty God, who is INFINITELY more loving than we could imagine would burn the entire bod y(or soul rather) alive forever in a literal relentless fire?? You do know revelation and parables are symbolic,  right?

If someone who is self righteous and believes he knows no wrong and that he has salvation suddenly finds out he doesn't, Jesus will say to him "I never knew you!!"..Can you imagine the anguish, the horror, the lament, the "weeping and gnashing of teeth"..And if that is the judgment then the judgment IS the torment then the judgment aka the torment is everlasting! The unquenchable fire would just mean no one will put it out..there will be no relief. It will consume (another word used repeatedly in the bible to help us see what happens in fire) and become ashes (another word used to convey the fate of the unrighteous, like those in Sodom and Gomorrah.)


Imagery is often used by Jehovah and Jesus in a vivid manner to convey the power of God's will. And his will for the unrighteous is for them to CEASE TO EXIST after righteous fair punishment. You really think he wants to see Satan tormenting people in a literal hellfire for an eternity when Satan would get a sick pleasure out of it!? Satan's the sadist, not Jehovah! Jehovah doesn't want to see evil anywhere anymore ever again, and he certainly doesn't want his righteous children to be perturbed by the idea of people they may have loved being roasted for an eternity. After all, Jehovah hates the sin, not the sinner. He desires all the attain to repentance. We have the gift of free will. Now to abuse that is our prerogative and the punishment can be death for doing so. Why? Because those unwilling to recognize God as rightful sovereign of the universe have no rightful logical place in his kingdom..If rebellion and wickedness was allowed, there would be no peace and we'd end up right back here where we are now. In wars and strife, chaos and detriment!


It would be very easy to research the literal meaning of hell (sheol..literally,a grave!), and hades means about the same thing. Gehenna (as used at Mark 9:47,48 )is a literal garbage dump where carcasses and garbage etc. were tossed to consume them and get rid of them. Nothing was alive after being burned there..that's a guarantee. Hell is even said to be thrown into the lake of fire, so in other words in the new earth there won't be any need for graves or tombs or anything else..there will be no more death! We have two choices folks, life or death. And if knowing you could die forever instead of enjoying life in peace and perfection for an eternity, getting your every righteous hearts desire isn't incentive enough for you to serve our heavenly father, then dare I say ,you don't deserve him. The fear is supposed to be of dying forever and of displeasing our loving heavenly father, with no hope of resurrection and peace and life, not roasting for an eternity. That is blasphemy!


And for those who desire to take the above scriptures as symbolism instead of parables and revelation as symbolism then I pity you because MY God is LOVE. And you're being unreasonable as well ..Recognize the symbolism please. Even his judgment is tempered with mercy. He is perfectly balanced and considerate in all matters. We all have a sinful nature and our punishment for it is death. Eternal death after a just punishment if we don't exercise faith in Christ.

God doesn't even want to see anyone die, much less burn alive for heaven's sake!Y our preachers are lying to you if they support this satanic doctrine. Good ploy there Satan..let's get people thinking God is heartless and tyrannical..that'll pull the numbers on the side of atheism! God is JUST yes..what would be justice for sin? According to the word of God, death. Go beyond that and you are attributing satanic characteristics to God where they don't belong! The whole "death and ashes to the body while the soul never dies" nonsense is both illogical and unbiblical .I have seen ZERO PROOF that when we die, we remain awake outside our bodies. As if bodies sleep with no people in them. Nonsense.

Isaiah 34:9,10:It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever

The above is referring to the wicked city of Edom..Go there today and see if you see literal smoke and fire! Nope, it is emphasizing the desolation and the absolute destruction. This is some of the key symbolism and hyperbole from which Revelation and Jesus' reiteration of gehenna borrow from. We are SUPPOSED to interpret the NT symbolism in light of the OT's and it's explanation of it all! Not make up some literal interpretation that contradicts the OT's usage of the SAME SYMBOLISM.

Jude 1:7 (King James Version)
7Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

And that eternal fire did what?

2 Peter 2:6:and if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and DESTROYED them by burning them to ASHES, making them an example to ungodly people of what is going to happen to them;

Eternal fire = destruction, ashes, annihilation. The destruction is "eternal" as opposed to the "destroying process" being eternal.


Weeping, gnashing, torment=judgment=eternal, in that is it final. The SECOND death and the dead involved are eternally DEAD. No resurrection from the "second death."

2 Peter 2:6:for the righteous man through seeing and hearing, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul day after day with their lawless works

Yes, the torment IS knowing you don't know God and knowing you will die while being cast from the kingdom and punished for your sin! I can't even imagine standing before the throne of God being judged for hypocrisy or unrighteousness or whatever else! Truly fear inspiring indeed!

Hell as taught by traditionalists is a slanderous doctrine. Who is the original slanderer of God? Yes, this is a Satanic doctrine!

Isaiah 47:14:Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame

What does stubble mean? Eternal unkillable soul outside the stubble? Reason is your friend.

"Smoke ascending forever and ever" is emphasizing the finality of the consequences of the judgment. Again, when Edom was destroyed and it smoked forever, was that literal? Or does it just mean it has been burned up..forever?

Job 21:30:That the wicked is reserved to the day of DESTRUCTION? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

Job 21:32:"While he is carried to the grave, Men will keep watch over his tomb.

Ezekial 18:20:The soul that sinneth, it shall die

We've all desired peace on earth, right? That's because God has put that desire in our hearts. I think it is interesting that so many are not intimately familiar with whether or not they will actually reside in heaven and what that means. Yet everyone desires peace and healing and health and happiness on earth. Well imagine if that earth is perfect and you are perfect and everything is cleansed and new and wonderful! You can have that! What Adam and Eve could've had had they not sinned. And keep in mind, God's purposes NEVER change, so, quite frankly, Paradise earth MUST be realized..And if you find out you can't and others can be a part of it, what will you feel? Tormented perhaps? To reiterate,the judgment is the torment..the judgment is forever. Therefore the the "fire=annihilation" is eternal, a cessation of existence. (repetition..bringin it home)
annihilation. Ashes, stubble, existing no more, destroyed, dead. KAPUT. THAT is the lake of fire.


What does it mean when the bible says "both soul and body" if you think they are the same thing? Well, soul can mean more than one thing. One would be the body (the entire person) "man became a living soul" and sometimes it can mean life, so when the bible says fear he who can kill both soul AND body, it means your literal body as as well as your prospect for resurrection and life, or eternal life even. In relation to Gehenna, it would mean both your body and your prospect for life and resurrection will be gone,"burned up" so to speak. Still don't believe souls can be annihilated.? What more do you need? I can't emphasize enough that symbolism is still symbolism no matter how vivid it is. No matter how preachers like to tickle your ears with it and make it literal! More money for them if God is sadist, right? One might think "if I give more,maybe I'll be spared from literal eternal fire" when there is NO such thing as literal eternal fire. Fire consumes what it burns. Eternal is indicative of the finality of that consumption. Sometimes "forever and ever " doesn't mean forever and ever, but for as long as something in particular lasts. When someone burns "forever and ever" he is burning until he is consumed. Period. Jonah was said to be in the belly of the fish "forever"..was he really or was he in there till he was spit out?


Why would the bible say this--"day and night forever and ever..no rest"..Ever heard the expression"No rest for the wicked", imagine the soul-turbulence when one is being judged for destruction instead of life!.So the no rest= the judgment..and again the effects of the judgment last forever..no more life prospect! And again,"day and night forever and ever" is BORROWED language from Isaiah chapter 34 where it isn't literal at all. Let the bible interpret itself. Whatever it means,we are able to discern that it isn't literal from it's use elsewhere where hyperbole and symbolism is more than apparent.


I can only urge you to do your own examination and studies to "make sure of all things". Perhaps you could read about Plato's philosophies in connection with the "immortality of the soul" and how it is in fact a man made doctrine and not a reality. Of course some will inherit the GIFT of immortality. Everyone else will be gone..forever. Otherwise peace and righteousness in an UTTERLY cleansed and wonderful world could only be a dream.

John 20:28

Blog disclaimer :I am no longer a Jehovah's Witness and I now readily identify Jesus as my Lord and my God because he has GREAT authority over me because His God, the Only True God, granted it to him. Though I think the explanation in this blog is certainly possible, it very well could be that Thomas recognized Jesus as his Lord and his God, without that having to mean that Jesus was the SAME God whom his father is, but rather simply able to bear the title in his role as Chief agent of the Most High and One with more authority over others than anyone else in the world has with the exception of the one who gave it to him.

John 20:28 (King James Version)
28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.


In 1 Corinthians 8:5,6, non-trinitarians know Paul isn't referring to Yahweh according to a million (don't know exact #) other scriptures where there is a CLEAR distinction between Jesus and Jehovah (NOT in the same godhead, which literally means holy, not 3 persons in 1 God). 1+1=2. Many are right in saying Jesus was (a mighty) God because he was and still is the most powerful representative of God. He is the "greater Moses", who is ALSO called God .(Powerful men representing Jehovah are sometimes called God.) If His spirit is upon them then they are "God with us", doing His will and not their own. This would be why throughout the NT we hear these words over and over "God AND Christ Jesus our Lord. (1+1=2)..Jesus STILL and always will have a God! (Matthew 27:46, Eph 1:17, 1 Cor 11:3, the latter 2 written AFTER Christ's ascension to heaven.) Saying that one person within the same godhead (again,means "divine",NOT 3 in 1 God) is in submission to another is farfetched to say the least and dangerously assumptive. (1+1+1=3) Can't Thomas acknowledge Jesus power and glory and also recognize who gave that power and glory TO Jesu s(WHILE Jesus personifies His father's will) in the expression in John 20:28? (Mtt 9:8,John 11:40) Which is what I believe he did. No one may see God and yet live! If Jesus stood before me with the glory and spirit of God upon him an exclamation of "My God!" WOULD be appropriate. Because Jesus is used BY GOD to REPRESENT Him and to accomplish His will. (John 13:31,32) God tends to do that (use others to represent him and to accomplish his will.Sorry for the repetition but it is important.)

If I may refer you to Joshua 5:14,15 where an angel of Yahweh is worshipped (proskuneo can mean other things than worship..so use discernment) and there is NO correction from the angel not to do so BECAUSE he is there to represent his creator too and therefore it could be said he was "God with Joshua". And it could be said that the "worship" is glorifying the one he represents.

ALSO, I refer you to Judges chapter 13:verses 18 and 22 where Manoah saw an angel of Yahweh, THEN says that he saw God!

SEE ALSO Genesis 32:30: And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. (He encountered an angel, not Almighty God.)

Jesus is greater than an angel..getting the point yet?(the bible doesn't say it was his rightful place all along but that he was EXALTED above angels BECAUSE of his obedience and faithfulness)(Hebrews 1:4)..Who exalted him? Was it his father, the one you think is in the same God that he is? And this makes sense to you? Discarding platonic philosophy(even with it ),the trinity has no basis in reason, biblically speaking. What a coincidence that Platonic philosophy and much touted at the very time the Nicene creed was formulated, as well as the early ECF's being blatantly Platonically schooled! (Colossians 2:8,1 Corinthians 3:19) Not to mention pagan three in one gods. Not to mention Constantine's desire for pleasing everyone, including the pagans and philosophically minded.

I LOVE Jesus. I love his God too! In fact, I have the SAME GOD Jesus does.

In the SAME chapter (ch 20 verse 17) Jesus said: "I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God." To whom was he ascending?..in verse 31,again Jesus is referred to as the SON of God. Those who say son of God=God because son of man=man have no ground to stand on BECAUSE God cannot be likened to man. HIS sons cannot be equal to Him! Because he HAS NO equal. Perhaps functionally equal according to whatever amount of God's spirit is in them as God works through them,though. (John 3:34,Acts 2:22) Sons come after fathers, not before or at the same time. If ANYONE is a son of God then he CANNOT be God. Sons of God are identified as such precisely because they are not God..IF God begets someone (John 1:18) then there is no way the begotten and the one brought forth is God. It defies logic and is an outright lie. We are taught to "reason with the scriptures"..God is not the author of confusion. (1 Cor 14:33) The trinity is described as a "mystery" by even its adherrents. And God wants us to KNOW him, as a singularity(Deut 6:4) who USES people and angels and his most beloved who he made firstborn (Ps. 89:27,Colossians 1:15) to get HIS will done! (Mark 14:36,John 5:30)

God means "a strong one"..(see Ex 7:1,2 Cor 4:4,Isaiah 9:6)..Psalm 82:6 is quoted by Jesus himself when they said he was "making himself equal to God". He compared himself to the creation of God!..(John 10:35)

Psalm 82:6: I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High.

Observing Christians' eagerness to deify two in addition to the unipersonal God of the Shema (ie Jesus plus the holy spirit of God), I see more evidence of the importance of God's personal name. (John 17:3,26,Psalm 83:18) Considering that people sometimes misuse titles like lord and god to create a multipersonal being.

God cannot be likened to man nor can he be called a son of man, nor can he be born or die ,yet trinitarians won't hesitate to call him a son of man. God cannot be literally seen (and HAS never been literally seen save for representatives and manifestations of his glory) and yet someone live, again. Not face to face!

Jesus was tempted (Matt 4:1,James 1:13), called a son of man, was clearly seen, and died to save us. Thank you Jesus! "The Last Adam" (Romans 5:14), "the mighty one" (God) indeed!


Now please recognize that my intent is not to offend or condescend any trinitarians or Christians (of which I am one, a Christian that is) but to defend my faith and proclaim what I believe to be the truth straight from the word of God. And, of course, also to hopefully get people to ponder for instance questions like these: Why is it ok to call Moses and angels God? Why were angels "worshipped " in some instances? Why can God be likened to a son of man if he cannot be likened to man? Is a mediator ever either one of the persons he is mediating between? Is anyone ever beside a "being" or with a "being" and still able to be that "being"? If someone inherits everything from someone can that person be the same One from whom they inherited everything? Can you really make real sense out of believing that there is one God and one person in submission to another person within that one God (with solid evidence from the word..not just assumptions from misunderstood scriptures)? If God is three in one, why didn't he just say so? It's a pretty big bible to just have that omitted to be "mysterious" when He wants us to know him. Questions like that.

In summary, there are two possibilities for John 20:28. Either Thomas was recognizing Jesus as his lord and his God (as one who had been granted all authority over him by THE Shema's God) OR perhaps Thomas was recognizing Jesus as his Lord and IN ADDITION TO THAT God the father IN CHRIST (His Son), reconciling the world unto himself in the resurrected Christ!:) Examine,with reasoning please:

John 14:9:Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

2 Corinthians 5:19:God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself

Colossians 2:9:For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily

After the resurrection of Christ,how much more would the indwelling of the *father*(the only true God..John 17:3) within the being of the glorified Messiah be punctuated and apparent? Yes,Thomas could very well have been seeing God the father in Christ our Lord and acknowledging it excitedly!

Trinity answers

These are questions I found on a website for the trinity.I had pasted them in my documents and just briefly answered and so pasted my answers(beginning with *) with them.I can't find the website(where I got the questions) anymore.Forgive me.

1) If Jesus is a created being and not fully God, then it is hard to see how He as a creature could bear the full wrath of God against all of our sins.** because everything he has, all power and authority has been GIVEN him to the glory of the father..Yahweh wished it to be so and caused it to be so. His name literally means "he causes to become"..If He sends his spirit upon someone then that person is able to do all that God allows him to do. 2) If Jesus is not fully God then justification by faith alone is called into question. If Jesus isn't fully God, then we could rightly doubt whether we can fully trust Him to save us completely.**He is the "second Adam"..Adam was the first created earthly man and Jesus was the first perfect man of God's NEW creation, uniquely begotten by God's spirit through a virgin womb. They were both sons of God ..God is perfectly just so a perfect son had to buy back what another perfect son had lost. That equals salvation. (in the name of justice)..God could foreknow that Jesus would perfectly fulfill all his salvation plans for mankind without Jesus ever having to be God. Just the faithful and true LAST ADAM. 3) If Jesus is not fully God, should we pray to Him? Who but an infinite God has the ability to hear and respond to all the prayers of all of God's people? Would it not be idolatry to worship Jesus (no matter how powerful) if He isn't fully God? Yet in Philippians 2:9-11 and Revelation 5:12-14 we are taught to worship Jesus.**1st of all there are different meanings of proskuneo. It could be just obeisance or reverence. But if it is worship it ALSO is to THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER. People proskuneoe'd kings and representatives of Yahweh all through the OT so how much more so would people worship, admire, and bow before the appointed king of God's heavenly kingdom? It isn't idolatry or polytheism if God tells us to bow before someone. In the OT, he usually stressed the worship of himself only because of idol and false god worship, not because of people's reverence for his representatives and kings he had made mighty. Also, I don't see a problem in addressing Jesus in prayer as long as you recognize his father's role in his exalted position and use him as mediator to reach the Almighty..who always uses representatives and mediators. In other words, if you address Jesus in prayer, recognize his might and power, but also recognize his father's giving that might and power to him. The Lord's prayer is our model prayer and we are to address the father (who even trinitarians know isn't Jesus) in Jesus name,as mediator between God and man. 4) If somebody denies that Jesus is fully God who has always possessed all the attributes of God; yet nonetheless say that it was Jesus who saves us; then this teaching wrongly begins to attribute credit for salvation to a creature and not to God Himself. **They are both saviors..they can individually be called saviors as well because the salvation would not have occurred if Yahweh hadn't sent his son and if Jesus hadn't complied and died. For an example and to put things in perspective examine the following verses:

At revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father

Now from this we can conclude this:
Jehovah..shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers
also
Jesus..shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers
AND
the faithful anointed shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers

Make sense?
If God grants power to persons, they too have God's power to whatever extent he gives it.


5) If Jesus is not fully God, then the independence and personal nature of God is at stake: If there is no Trinity of three persons, each of which are fully God, then there were no interpersonal relationships within God before creation. Without interpersonal relationships, it is difficult to see how God could be genuinely personal and how we could relate to such a being.* **EVEN WE are created in his image and we are able to connect with others without having the example of multiple personages within our body. So this argument is moot. And if you use the argument that man can be father, son, and brother all at the same time, I ask you..can the brother role within that man be called that man alone? God, like man, has many attributes and roles to play and fill, but all those attributes and roles are not literal people come to life individually inside him. Who in the world says God has to be surrounded by multiple persons within his own being to be able to aptly be called love or filled with such? I can be alone and yet love. Even if I was alone in the world. In fact ..I would want others like me around which is probably why God created to begin with. Self love is every bit as palpable as love shared with others. GOD IS LOVE.