Thursday, January 8, 2009

John 20:28

Blog disclaimer :I am no longer a Jehovah's Witness and I now readily identify Jesus as my Lord and my God because he has GREAT authority over me because His God, the Only True God, granted it to him. Though I think the explanation in this blog is certainly possible, it very well could be that Thomas recognized Jesus as his Lord and his God, without that having to mean that Jesus was the SAME God whom his father is, but rather simply able to bear the title in his role as Chief agent of the Most High and One with more authority over others than anyone else in the world has with the exception of the one who gave it to him.

John 20:28 (King James Version)
28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

In 1 Corinthians 8:5,6, non-trinitarians know Paul isn't referring to Yahweh according to a million (don't know exact #) other scriptures where there is a CLEAR distinction between Jesus and Jehovah (NOT in the same godhead, which literally means holy, not 3 persons in 1 God). 1+1=2. Many are right in saying Jesus was (a mighty) God because he was and still is the most powerful representative of God. He is the "greater Moses", who is ALSO called God .(Powerful men representing Jehovah are sometimes called God.) If His spirit is upon them then they are "God with us", doing His will and not their own. This would be why throughout the NT we hear these words over and over "God AND Christ Jesus our Lord. (1+1=2)..Jesus STILL and always will have a God! (Matthew 27:46, Eph 1:17, 1 Cor 11:3, the latter 2 written AFTER Christ's ascension to heaven.) Saying that one person within the same godhead (again,means "divine",NOT 3 in 1 God) is in submission to another is farfetched to say the least and dangerously assumptive. (1+1+1=3) Can't Thomas acknowledge Jesus power and glory and also recognize who gave that power and glory TO Jesu s(WHILE Jesus personifies His father's will) in the expression in John 20:28? (Mtt 9:8,John 11:40) Which is what I believe he did. No one may see God and yet live! If Jesus stood before me with the glory and spirit of God upon him an exclamation of "My God!" WOULD be appropriate. Because Jesus is used BY GOD to REPRESENT Him and to accomplish His will. (John 13:31,32) God tends to do that (use others to represent him and to accomplish his will.Sorry for the repetition but it is important.)

If I may refer you to Joshua 5:14,15 where an angel of Yahweh is worshipped (proskuneo can mean other things than use discernment) and there is NO correction from the angel not to do so BECAUSE he is there to represent his creator too and therefore it could be said he was "God with Joshua". And it could be said that the "worship" is glorifying the one he represents.

ALSO, I refer you to Judges chapter 13:verses 18 and 22 where Manoah saw an angel of Yahweh, THEN says that he saw God!

SEE ALSO Genesis 32:30: And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. (He encountered an angel, not Almighty God.)

Jesus is greater than an angel..getting the point yet?(the bible doesn't say it was his rightful place all along but that he was EXALTED above angels BECAUSE of his obedience and faithfulness)(Hebrews 1:4)..Who exalted him? Was it his father, the one you think is in the same God that he is? And this makes sense to you? Discarding platonic philosophy(even with it ),the trinity has no basis in reason, biblically speaking. What a coincidence that Platonic philosophy and much touted at the very time the Nicene creed was formulated, as well as the early ECF's being blatantly Platonically schooled! (Colossians 2:8,1 Corinthians 3:19) Not to mention pagan three in one gods. Not to mention Constantine's desire for pleasing everyone, including the pagans and philosophically minded.

I LOVE Jesus. I love his God too! In fact, I have the SAME GOD Jesus does.

In the SAME chapter (ch 20 verse 17) Jesus said: "I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God." To whom was he ascending? verse 31,again Jesus is referred to as the SON of God. Those who say son of God=God because son of man=man have no ground to stand on BECAUSE God cannot be likened to man. HIS sons cannot be equal to Him! Because he HAS NO equal. Perhaps functionally equal according to whatever amount of God's spirit is in them as God works through them,though. (John 3:34,Acts 2:22) Sons come after fathers, not before or at the same time. If ANYONE is a son of God then he CANNOT be God. Sons of God are identified as such precisely because they are not God..IF God begets someone (John 1:18) then there is no way the begotten and the one brought forth is God. It defies logic and is an outright lie. We are taught to "reason with the scriptures"..God is not the author of confusion. (1 Cor 14:33) The trinity is described as a "mystery" by even its adherrents. And God wants us to KNOW him, as a singularity(Deut 6:4) who USES people and angels and his most beloved who he made firstborn (Ps. 89:27,Colossians 1:15) to get HIS will done! (Mark 14:36,John 5:30)

God means "a strong one"..(see Ex 7:1,2 Cor 4:4,Isaiah 9:6)..Psalm 82:6 is quoted by Jesus himself when they said he was "making himself equal to God". He compared himself to the creation of God!..(John 10:35)

Psalm 82:6: I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High.

Observing Christians' eagerness to deify two in addition to the unipersonal God of the Shema (ie Jesus plus the holy spirit of God), I see more evidence of the importance of God's personal name. (John 17:3,26,Psalm 83:18) Considering that people sometimes misuse titles like lord and god to create a multipersonal being.

God cannot be likened to man nor can he be called a son of man, nor can he be born or die ,yet trinitarians won't hesitate to call him a son of man. God cannot be literally seen (and HAS never been literally seen save for representatives and manifestations of his glory) and yet someone live, again. Not face to face!

Jesus was tempted (Matt 4:1,James 1:13), called a son of man, was clearly seen, and died to save us. Thank you Jesus! "The Last Adam" (Romans 5:14), "the mighty one" (God) indeed!

Now please recognize that my intent is not to offend or condescend any trinitarians or Christians (of which I am one, a Christian that is) but to defend my faith and proclaim what I believe to be the truth straight from the word of God. And, of course, also to hopefully get people to ponder for instance questions like these: Why is it ok to call Moses and angels God? Why were angels "worshipped " in some instances? Why can God be likened to a son of man if he cannot be likened to man? Is a mediator ever either one of the persons he is mediating between? Is anyone ever beside a "being" or with a "being" and still able to be that "being"? If someone inherits everything from someone can that person be the same One from whom they inherited everything? Can you really make real sense out of believing that there is one God and one person in submission to another person within that one God (with solid evidence from the word..not just assumptions from misunderstood scriptures)? If God is three in one, why didn't he just say so? It's a pretty big bible to just have that omitted to be "mysterious" when He wants us to know him. Questions like that.

In summary, there are two possibilities for John 20:28. Either Thomas was recognizing Jesus as his lord and his God (as one who had been granted all authority over him by THE Shema's God) OR perhaps Thomas was recognizing Jesus as his Lord and IN ADDITION TO THAT God the father IN CHRIST (His Son), reconciling the world unto himself in the resurrected Christ!:) Examine,with reasoning please:

John 14:9:Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

2 Corinthians 5:19:God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself

Colossians 2:9:For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily

After the resurrection of Christ,how much more would the indwelling of the *father*(the only true God..John 17:3) within the being of the glorified Messiah be punctuated and apparent? Yes,Thomas could very well have been seeing God the father in Christ our Lord and acknowledging it excitedly!

1 comment:

  1. Hey Kellie! Its great to see you have taken up blogging! I'm definitely going to put you on my blogroll, because there are very few JW apologists who do and I am always interested in what they have to say. So kudos to you for putting yourself out there!