Saturday, January 17, 2009

Trinitarian standards

This is a blog I've compiled to show the fallacy of trinitarian reasoning.At least that is what I hope it does.When one reads certain scriptures through a trinitarian biased lens,one sees something in scripture that is not intended imo.Jehovah is one Jehovah,not triune Jehovah.First I point out trinitarian standards for making Christ God then I explain how it means others have to be God too.

***Isaiah 42:8
God shares his glory with no one so since Christ has the glory of God he must be God

John 17:22:And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one

Not only does Christ get glory from God but the disciples do as well so by trinitarian standards,the disciples could each be called Almighty God.

In context,Jehovah is talking about not sharing glory with false gods and idols.But he gives glory to true followers and plenty glory to Jesus,his most important exalted son.

***Hosea 13:4:No one is savior but God therefore Jesus must be God.

Isaiah 43:11"I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me(NASB)
1 Samuel 23:5:David was the saviour of the people of Keilah.(bile in basic English)

Judges 3:9:Then the people of Israel cried out to the LORD for help. The LORD sent a savior to rescue them. It was Othniel, son of Caleb's younger brother Kenaz.15The LORD sent a savior to rescue them. It was Ehud, a left-handed man from the tribe of Benjamin.(God's world translation)

Isaiah 19:20:he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them

Jude 25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus the Messiah(explains how they are both savior)

By trinitarian standards,anyone Jehovah sent forth to save or rescue his people could be called almighty God.
I can only urge you to look at the number of people called "savior" and what they all have in common is that Jehovah sent them to save.Who sent Christ?(John 3:16)

Obviously when Jehovah sends someone to save us they are savior too,but,again,who sent them?Jehovah is saving THROUGH them.Of course,the GREATEST of those he has sent has been Jesus himself "the greater Moses,the greater Solomon "etc.

****Jesus is obviously God because only God can perform the miracles Jesus performed and judge people and resurrect the dead etc.

Ok,I agree only God has that power BUT also ANYONE he GIVES that power to,sometimes THROUGH Christ.There's an order here.Some examples of others doing the same kinds of things or being given the authority and spirit to do so.

John 20:23:If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.(Jesus gives disciples permission and authority to forgive sin!)

Acts 9:36-42 Peter resurrected Tabitha!

Acts 20:7-12 Paul raised Eutychus!

Joshua 10:12,13:made sun and moon motionless

Romans 2:16 God through Christ judges(just one of many scriptures explaining how Christ has authority)

By trinitarian standards Peter Paul and the rest of the disciples could each be a coequal Almighty God in a "godhead".

***Christ raised himself from the dead(John 2:19:And in three days I will raise it up)

Galatians 1:1 as well as every OTHER scripture attributes the raising to the father.And I know the trinitarian argument is that all three accomplished this and I agree, but in what sense?

observe the following verses:

Luke 8:48 Jesus says to a woman: "Your faith has made you well." This woman was healed not by herself but because her faith provided the reason and basis.Similarly ,Christ,through obedience love and supplication,provided the moral basis on which Jehovah would raise him.You would have to ignore NUMEROUS texts to believe that Jesus LITERALLY raised himself.Including all those that define death as well as the reasoning in texts like Hebrews 5:7.

John 4:1-3When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John

Now from this text you might assume Jesus baptized but he didn't it was through his disciples that he did.

So by trinitarian standards people can heal themselves and Jesus baptized people in water when he did no such thing.In other words,sometimes,based on logic and biblical context(wider too!) certain texts are clearly figurative.

***Colossians 2:9:For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form..
Therefore ,Jesus HAS TO BE GOD!

ok,Ephesians 1:22:And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church
23Which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all

John 1:16:And of his fullness have all we received, and grace for grace

By trinitarian standards Christ's followers have to be God because Christ is God and all his fullness is in them.
All this means is that God's holy spirit is upon them and within them to whatever measure he allows and sees fit.

***"I and the father are one.If you've seen me you've seen the father."Therefore Jesus must be God!

By trinitarian standards the disciples are each individually Almighty God as well and since they will represent Christ and God and do even greater works then Christ they must be God.If they have all these powers and are one with God then they have to be God too right?(John 17:11,21)

***Jesus is "Immanuel" God with us! So he has to be God!

Have you studied all the names in the bible and what they mean?If not,I hope you will then you will see that with this trinitarian logic,almost anyone could be assumed to be God.Israel,Elisha,Elijah,Daniel,Michael,Ezekial,Joel(etc.) all contain within them "el",meaning God.If we were to take many bible names and look at their meaning to determine whether or not those ones were God with the same standards trinitarians do with Immanuel,then God's substance would be quite expansive,with a number or "persons."Obviously ,Jesus represented God and therefore was "God with us" in that respect just like Moses was and just like angels were,except on a grander scale because he is far greater than anyone besides his own God and my God,Jehovah.

***Jesus was worshipped therefore he has to be God!

Matthew 4:10 "You must Worship Yahweh your God and you must serve him only."

1 Chronicles 29:20: And David said to all the assembly, Now bless Yahweh your God. And all the assembly blessed Jehovah, the God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshiped Yahweh, and the king." (see my blog about John 20:28 too)

So according to trinitarian standards,kings and angels could be Jehovah as well..The same word for worship used for Christ is also used for kings and Christians(etc.)

Revelation 3:9:Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

God makes the syngogue of Satan worship Christians just like he makes everyone worship Jesus.Why?To his glory because he's love.

***Jesus was the image and form of God therefore he must be God.

Man was created in God's image.Is man God?Have you ever seen anything or anyone in the form of another and existing as the person they are in the form of?(bad English)In other words,Jesus can't be God by this very logic.

I'm not insisting that trinitarians could ever believe all these other people are Jehovah,I'm simply pointing out that by the standards they themselves employ with Jesus,others could as well from a nontrinitarian standpoint.There are many more I wanted to point out but I'll save it for a rainy day.

God is love..Jesus most assuredly demonstrated that love and made God's love and purpose become fulfilled by dying for us!Jesus is most certainly in union with Yahweh and Yahweh uses his holy spirit to assure his every will gets done.Simple as that.

Jesus does nothing of his own initiative,only looks to do his father's will,and lives to please and glorify his father.Everything from authority to power to life blessing and kingship has been given him FROM his father.He didn't even have a name greater than the angels until he inherited one through obedience and overcoming and saving us.He has been used by Jehovah BECAUSE of their mutual love for one another to be his word,his mouthpiece,his messenger,the mediator,our savior.Any words or phrases that can be used of both of them are because of the following:

1 Corinthians 8:6 (New International Version)
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

2 Corinthians 1:20:for as many as are promises of God, in him are the Yes, and in him the Amen, for glory to God through us

When God sends messengers,appoints kings,sends angels..they are called God sometimes.Their words are his,their actions are by means of his spirit and those listening to them are listening to God and those" proskuneoing" them are glorifying God,the ONE who sent them.

Just as God's agents and messengers have always done the things they do by means of God and hence phrases and titles can sometimes be interchanged between them and God,such is also with his greatest messenger of all,Jesus!

Jesus is my savior.King of God's kingdom,Second most high over all the universe.Mediator between God and man.I follow his footsteps closely and live to do what he did..proclaim his father's name and herald the kingdom message.He is the way to God,always proclaims the truth as God's greatest mouthpiece and by his death,I can have life.He is the wisdom of God(the smartest creation by God) the word of God(proclaiming God's truths and fulfilling his prophecies) and will herald in a new heavens and a new earth by the power of God.His kingdom will last an eternity and will never be brought to ruin.There will be no more wickedness death or chaos under his reign.Everything is in subjection to him except for His God.His God is my God.And through him,I reach my God.He LIVES to do his father's will and loves his father more than we can imagine and relies on him for everything.He has inherited a name greater then the angels and has been exalted due to perfect obedience which came from supplication and love.That is who Jesus is.

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