Wednesday, March 4, 2009

Is eternal Hellfire realistic?

Much of this blog will be a reiteration of the Oh hell!! blog,to just remind those who still believe this "hellfire" nonsense that God is in fact love and what perish REALLY means.The hellfire doctrine is not just nonsense,it's satanic blasphemy against a holy loving merciful sovereign God.I would question the goodness of anyone's heart and the soundness of anyone's mind who thinks this doctrine is plausible.DO NOT BE MISLED.Now if there was scriptural evidence that wasn't symbolic or parable,then I too would have to accept this even though I don't understand it.BUT thankfully,Jehovah has not left those sincerely seeking for truth without biblical refutations of this heinous blasphemy against his character.

Now I am sure those who believe in this are tired of well meaning illustrations about how would we feel if our children sinned then having to watch them burn alive for an eternity OR FOR EVEN A MOMENT.Some would respond and say God's holiness is without bounds and that would demand a gigantic punishment.Well,it does.But not the kind you have in mind.

If you say his holiness is infinitely greater than ours and that would dictate an eternity in fire,I would say to you that his love and mercy is also infinitely greater than ours and that would dictate no such thing.You're arguing something that is NOT biblically stated and from emotionalism and men's ideas.Yah wants sinners to repent..he doesn't want anyone to die but they HAVE to,or we would have chaos with people unwilling to serve him responsibly and wholly.(and holily<--that a word?)A world of peace can't thrive with willful sinners.A world of peace can't thrive with people burning alive forever beneath them either.(And the universal salvation folks,God ,again,is love.He isn't going to force people who want no part with him or who refuse to fully conform to his standards to appreciate the provisions and the eternal life in peace he promises to those who DO love him and desire to obey and please him(like Jesus most perfectly represented).He does not want a world of forced love and obedience.i.e. robots)

Jeremiah 32:35:they built the high places of Ba´al that are in the valley of the son of Hin´nom, in order to make their sons and their daughters pass through [the fire] to Mo´lech, a thing that I did not command them, neither did it come up into my heart to do this detestable thing

So if a few minutes of a child in fire repulses Jehovah,imagine the disdain and horror he would feel watching people burn alive forever.And if you say,oh those are innocent babies,I would say we are ALL children of God.He makes the rain fall and the sun shine on everyone because HIS DESIRE is for EVERYONE to be loving and obedient.He isn't being deceptive when he says "SOMETHING LIKE THIS" would NEVER enter his heart..he means it.In a big way.This literal eternal fire(ACTUALLY symbolic) nonsense serves no purpose.However,killing people would.He doesn't want evil to be ANYWHERE.It would still be somewhere,quite prevalently and noisily,if possibly billions of people were screaming crying and cursing in anguish for an eternity.WAKE UP!

Jesus couldn't even stand to see a leper or demon possessed person tormented temporarily(and I'm sure at least some of these folks were serious sinners)..He healed them all if they only asked.And this is the kind of heavenly king you think will be tolerable of what your preacher tickles your ears with?The eternal worm and "drop of water if only" nonsense being spouted as something LITERAL???This would be an essential tool in the construction of an atheist ...If I KNEW this false doctrine were true,I would certainly have to admit God has some sadist characteristics and I would be forced to examine whether I could serve this kind of God.From my understanding of the marvelous word,Satan is the sadist.And Jehovah doesn't even want to kill anyone,much less watch them burn FOREVER like a madman!I'm not saying I for sure WOULDN'T accept it because I am just dust,clay in the potter's hands,but thankfully Jah has alleviated any doubt to those willing to break it down,recognize symbolism for what it is,and honestly define all these words he uses to describe what REALLY happens to the unrighteous.

Essentially,we need to examine every word that is erroneously translated as "hell" in the bible.Hell isn't in the bible.Sheol,hades(ok these two basically mean grave or tomb) and gehenna are.Gehenna is the only one that should have fire imagery attached,and only symbolically..the Jews at the time would've had a big ol garbage dump(an actual it) where there was fire that annihilated whatever was thrown in it turning it to ashes or zilch in mind when Jesus spoke about gehenna,which has erroneously been translated as hell.Lepers and the like were also cast there away from society.That is what the Jews had in their minds when Jesus was preaching about "hell"...ostracization from God,destruction.Research it yourself.Also important to note:Spirit(pneuma),means "life" or "breath" that Jah can restore in the resurrection..that is what returns to him when you die,the prospect of your being made alive again..Soul can mean body or life..It means life in Matt more hope to ever live again if your body and ALSO your prospect for resurrection is GONE,annihilated,just like the lake of fire,the 2nd FINAL DEATH(means cessation of existence),with no hope of resurrection.The word for forever doesn't even have to mean forever.Just as long as whatever it is describing lasts.Fire,for instance,just till whatever it is burning is destroyed..unquenched until whatever it is burning is destroyed.

To quote Steve Scianni from his essay "everlasting torment examined"

"Ages of ages is an indefinite amount of time finding its duration in connection to the object referred to.

We might also recall the smoke rising forever and ever in Isaiah 34 and Revelation 19:3 as denoting an indefinite but limited amount of time. Also, 2 Kings 5:27, Psalm 83:17, Matthew 21:19, and Philemon 15 are among numerous examples of the word forever limited to the duration of the entity spoken of.

Examine Jonah 2:6: To the roots of the mountains I sank down;
the earth beneath barred me in FOREVER.
But you brought my life up from the pit,
O LORD my God."

So Jonah said he was barred in the fish forever..Was he?Obviously,forever often means "for as long as what is spoken of lasts" in the bible.

Also,unquenchable fire didn't preserve forests or anything else in the bible it touched but rather annihilated whatever it did.See(PLEASE)Ezekial 20:47,Amos 5:6,and Matt 3:12 for examples of what unquenchable fire *really* does.

The bible is a marvelous puzzle,a tapestry of harmonious truth.When we see those vivid symbolisms being proclaimed in the NT,we have references in the OT and elsewhere in the NT to help us make sense of them ..for instance(this was in my last hell blog):

Isaiah 34:9,10:It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever

The above is referring to the wicked city of Edom..Go there today and see if you see literal smoke and fire!Nope,it is emphasizing the desolation and the absolute destruction. Same sort of terminology is used in Revelation to erroneously "prove" on a daily basis that a God of absolute love burns his wayward inherently sinful children alive forever.Examine also:

Jude 1:7 (King James Version)
7Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. explained HERE:

2 Peter 2:6:and if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and DESTROYED them by burning them to ASHES, making them an example to ungodly people of what is going to happen to them; (what REALLY happens in fire(ashes)..eternal simply emphasizes the finality of the destruction,which the fire SYMBOLIZES.The length of the finality if it.)

Isaiah 47:14:Behold, they shall be as stubble(what REALLY happens in fire)

And for those who say death is no kinda torment..I ask you..If a holy merciful God was before you right now,or he sent His son to represent Him before you right now...AND you were told of the REMARKABLE kingdom to come where conditions were described to you similar to this:

"Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. :And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. :And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they train for war.They will not hurt or destroy on all my holy mountain;for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.The former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.In his days may the righteous flourish, And abundance of peace till the moon is no more.May he also rule from sea to sea And from the River to the ends of the earth "(Rev 21:3-5,Micah 4:3,Is 11:6-9,65:17,Ps 72:7,8)

If you heard that majestic description of the coming kingdom ...
Would you wail and cry and weep and "gnash teeth" if he said to you something like this:

"You will die in your sin. Where I am going you cannot come you are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. you do not listen, because you are not from God. I never knew you! Get away from me, you worker of lawlessness. "(John 8:43-47,Matt 7:21-23)

Or would you shrug your shoulders and say "big deal..goodnight"..If you say "big deal.goodnight.To eternal sleep I biggie."..then your complacency and disregard alone merits your destruction.It's a HUGE deal to be killed instead of afforded an eternity in a paradisaic new world under the Most High of the Universe and his appointed merciful loving king for a literal eternity in unfathomably fantastic benevolent conditions.

One lady on youtube said to simply perish forever would be blissful.My idea of bliss is different(the eternal kingdom of God) would be TORMENT for me to miss out on not be able to love and serve my God and his Christ forever!Imagine further,too,the enhancement of the torment if you assumed you were saved or righteous or close to God.If you assumed you knew it all and deserved to inherit these blessings(like the pharisees).Then ..BAM!..not so much !If that wouldn't make you cry and gnash your teeth what would?The fate of the wicked is punishment according to whatever their sins are(their sins aren't infinite!),a just one that leads to the second death where,yes,even hell and death are thrown!Death is said to be "no more" when thrown there which SHOULD appeal to your logic and help you discern that whatever gets thrown in the lake of fire doesn't get infinitely "preserved" but rather infinitely and quite literally destroyed.There is simply no "eternal destroying process" but rather eternal destruction from which there can be no redemption.

Now to go round & round if you'll indulge me for a minute..If what I have presented FROM THE WORD OF GOD is accepted by sincere hearts and utilized minds,then the whole "automatic immortal soul" thing orthodox Christians embrace like a baby does a soft blankey,is NOT TRUE.And you know what else that means!Yep,Jesus REALLY died.For 3 days.So the immortal soul,hellfire and trinity are all refuted in one fell swoop.

"No one ever REALLY dies"...sounds like Satan's lie in the garden of Eden to me!!If a soul never REALLY died,then Satan wasn't REALLY a liar.BREAKING news:If you are alive in heaven or hell,then you haven't perished,in any respect.And you are making God a liar.To which I say "Let God be found true though every man be found a liar!"No wonder we have been instructed repeatedly to "make sure of all things"..thoroughly EXAMINE the scriptures "in an undertone day and night"..Satan's deceptions have gone wild,like the girls in those stupid 10 dollar videos.He's a crafty lil critter,but we can't say we haven't been warned.I would also like to encourage you to study Plato's influence on early church fathers.They thought Plato was inspired by God.Then you'll spy the TRUE origin of the trinity and immortal soul.

The following is from this website:

Plato, again taken from the Phaedo:

"The soul whose inseparable attitude is life will never admit of life's opposite, death. Thus the soul is shown to be immortal, and since immortal, indestructible...Do we believe there is such a thing as death? To be sure. And is this anything but the separation of the soul and body? And being dead is the attainment of this separation, when the soul exists in herself and separate from the body, and the body is parted from the soul. That is death.... Death is merely the separation of the soul and body."

"Statements by such ancient Greek and Roman writers as Polybius, Cicero, Seneca, Strabo---and even Plato himself---have led some modern historians to question whether Plato really personally believed the immortal soul doctrine. They suggest that he may have simply popularized what he knew to be a fiction as a means of keeping the citizenry in line through the fear of mysterious "unseen things" beyond this life."

"Many of the early theologians and scholars of the professing Christian religion---including such men as Origen, Tertullian and Augustine---were closely associated with Platonism.Tertullian (A.D. 155-220), for example, wrote: "For some things are known even by nature: the immortality of the soul, the instance, is held by many ... I may use, therefore, the opinion of Plato, when he declares: 'Every soul is immortal'" (The Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. III).

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ" (Col. 2:8).

I can only imagine Satan getting some real kicks from this abominable doctrine ,taunting Jehovah,saying something like "I have them believing you are like me..that you would enjoy this kind of ridiculous thing..What do you think about that?"To which Jehovah might say something like: "I am love.My good sheep know this.Nothing like this would ever enter my pure undefiled holy heart.They will see this.They will know."(Proverbs 27:11)

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death

Ezekial 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee:thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more(If he's alive and well pokin souls with pitchforks in an eternal literal fire,God is lying here)

Psalm 146:4 His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish(remember spirit means "breath of life" that can be returned upon resurrection)

2 Thessalonians 1:9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction (helps explain what eternal fire REALLY means)

Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.(a destroyed soul!..can't redefine destroyed here unless you think it's the literal body burning alive here too...the same meaning of the word destroy for BOTH)

John 3:16 God loved world so much he sent his son so we may not PERISH(which means kaput)

Genesis 3:19-return to dust (which means kaput)

Couple facts about "hell"
1.Job begged to go there
2.Jesus went there.For 3 whole days.

As for the Rich man and Lazarus IS a parable in a SERIES of parables.Hellfire spouters don't like to admit this because for some reason they think the names used HAVE to make it literal(they don't!) and tickling ears with traditional nonsense must be the desire of the day.If it sounds like a parable ,talks like a parable ,in a series of parables,it must be a parable.Which means it isn't literal. That alone should be a good enough reason not to build literal doctrines upon it's clearly parabolic intent.

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